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bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 07:22 AM
Please use this post to comment on the recent announcement (http://www.print3dforum.com/announcement.php?f=1).

Broome
10-21-2015, 07:53 AM
Tried to read the letter but the link does not work. Something with permission, could you fix the link?

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 08:25 AM
Should be fixed now.

Henk
10-21-2015, 08:34 AM
The update of october basically contains no news.
- Ethan invested astronomical amounts of mony.
- He is loosing this all to help us poor people.
- The whole world is conspiring against him and this is the reason for all trouble.
- He is the target and victim of many negative actions by customers, employees, shippers, customs and the government in general.
- He is the victim of the fact that he started to produce more and more models, the customers are to blame for the many models.
- Give him more time and money and everything would have been allright, but now all the evil forces are making it hard for him to fulfill his promises.

Ethan suggests that there are a very few people trying to bring him down for their own profit and accuses "unknown" people of criminal behaviour, this is a serious development of affairs.
Anyone can conclude that I'm the "guy from Europe" he refers to.
In the very beginning I have thought about reselling Rapide but decided not to do it.
A friend of mine who has a 3D print shop that I have a stake in was a few months ago approached by Ethan to be reseller and I advised him to read the Indiegogo messages first. He declined to do buisness with Ethan.
It is not true that I wanted to be reseller and that Ethan declined.

What annoyed me most in the campaign was the lack of response.
But now things seem to go sour there is a lengthy response.
However again it is nothing but a blend of paranoid conspiracy theory, accusations, excuses and promises.

What I find interesting is that now there seems to have started a troll campaign.
Suddenly people who are totally satisfied start to read the messages and find a cause to react.
Until now we have never seen such reactions.


We can go into great lengths about the conspiracies Ethan sees but that does not seem productive to me.
It must be clear to anyone who reads the messages and updates and who can think what is going on here.

The reaction of Indiegogo is interesting.
Indiegogo has not contacted me beyond acknowledging the complaint.
I cannot put messages on the Indiegogo Rapide campaign board anymore while the reaction by the campaign owner directly addresses me.
I was part of closing another campaign before based on complaints. That time I also did not get any message from Indiegogo beyond confirming the complaint, the campaign just closed. Indiegogo took away the complaining messages on that message board.

Being attacked directly, it starts to become personal.
Also it feels like it is easy to get into a spiral of things that go far beyond my personal interests in this.
On the other side I hate to be taken advantage of and I hate to see other people being taken advantage of.
There are enough people active on this list and most likely I will not continue to react on this affair, there is more to life than this.

Just to be clear;
- I have no business profit or interest in bringing the campaign down at all.
- I'm losing money now the perk definitely will not be delivered.
- This is not part of a "concerted" action.
- I have a stake in a 3D print shop that sells a lot of different brands and does not produce printers. This interest is in no way related to my reactions to this campaign.

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 08:38 AM
Henk, I'm part of this story too, the one on the FACTORY CLOSE part and the part he acuses me of tracking him down up to the limit his factory is shut down for a MONTH lol...

Agreed, his behaviour is "all is everyone elses' fault" and the fact he has had Rapide One campaign as a BIG failure with people coming to our recently (24h before this update!) created "how much does Ethan owe you" campaign to expose he still owes people money from the PRE-RAPIDELITE 200 Campaigns should make people realize this guy is out of control...

Of course, people will want their perks delivered, so we are a bit of "alone" here...

All I can do however is stop supporting this brand until this matter resolves here or in Court, because, as you said, this has gone too personal and far away. He didnt put any names on the update, but it's too easy to link his accusations to all the email communications I have with him and all the email headers, IPs and such...

He SHOULD BE REALLY WORRIED NOW as I won't stop here. I dont give a fuck who he really is, his real name, companies or money he has. I won't stop until I get my money back, no matter if I need to invest 10 times what I spent.

Henk
10-21-2015, 09:39 AM
Bolsoncerrado,

I feel too that a line is passed by accusing people of criminal conduct, while these people can clearly be tracked.
I think that Indiegogo is responsible for publishing this content.
I'm thinking about getting my lawyer involved and target Indiegogo.
The personal attack also makes me feel like acting more firmly.
I'm in between letting go and being drawn into, both because of the personal attack.

What actually made me get involved was realizing that there is no RapideLite store, after all this time and investing well over 8 million dollar ;) you can still only buy this printer through IndieGoGo.
After Ethan offered distribution to this friend I checked a bit on Rapide and started to realize that Indiegogo is acting as front-end to scams.
RapideLite is not the only project that is not a startup.
Indiegogo keeps getting money in after campaigns are funded and acts as a limited rights store.
On top of that it seems to be a pattern that Indiegogo is not open.

Indiegogo is yet another VolksWagen.

A funny thing is the high ranking on 3D print hubs Ethan is so proud of.
For a printer that has sold so few items and given the real quality it is a wonder ;)
It would be interesting to find out how the 3D printhubs list is hacked to arrive at this unlikely result.

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 09:45 AM
The ranking thing on 3dHUbs is as childish rubbish as hilarious....

How can he be so proud of it?!

The Form1 or the Replicator with HUNDREDS near ONE THOUSAND of reviews are still withstanding 4.7x ratings and RapideLite200 still has only 65 reviews. LOL


On the IGG side of things, yes, IGG has a real issue, it's just a matter of time a lawyer gets involved in one of the campaigns and gets scammed.... IGG gets money of SCAMS so they become scammers too. Not saying Rapide3D is a scam at this point but I've been scammed in another IGG campaign before and while IGG clean their hands on it, their hands are already dirty of dirty money, so at least in the EU they're full of SHIT no matter what. The EU laws are pretty strict on the "business scheme" they're producing, so it's a time bomb ticking and ready to expode is just a matter of time.


The business model of leaving the door open to further orders like Rapide3D is doing thru IGG site is just a double edge weapon as well, as in EU they're binding both themselves to our laws and granting us rights automatically.... so yeah, be prepared IGG/RAPIDE, here we come.

Henk
10-21-2015, 12:55 PM
Interesting to see all these positive messages that suddenly appear on the campaign board.
It is beyond doubt that Ethan has been approacehd by Indiegogo and thinks that insulting people and getting trolls to communicate for him will help him out.
These trolls sound like a communist propaganda machine, suddenly a stream of messages with the same intention appear whereas there have been complaints going on by a lot of people for quite some time now. Ethan did not find it interesting to react on all those messages, with the result that people did not accept it anymore. Only now does he react and that IN THE MOST UNACCEPTABLE MANNER POSSIBLE.

While Ethan is stating that his business may break down beacuse of all the pay-pall charge backs as the result of a few messages, some people seem to want to invest and buy big time now. Also interesting is the observation that all these positive people did not react to messages on the campaign board till now but that at the same time allready a lot of chargebacks were going on according to Ethan. So we must believe that in the past days a lot of people did read the messages and as a result asked their money back from Ethan, while now Indiegogo got involved in the complaints suddenly one message after another is an expression of authentic love for the project. This does not make sense.

Henk
10-21-2015, 01:27 PM
Bolsoncerrado,

If you consider action, I would try to save the whole history of the messages and comments of the campaign.

lharris
10-21-2015, 02:17 PM
Palpal only allows a 90 day window for chargebacks - so I don't think he has to worry - most investors are well past that date. They do send him a message asking him to respond. I did that and am not entitled to paypal protection as its past the timeframe, but just wanted a response as my emails go unanswered.
Just to inform yourselves - google ionnoi, the guy in question, mh370 campaign etc. Ethan has been there before with same comments. Just wish I had used google before I paid.

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 02:38 PM
Yeah and dont forget the Rapid One, I've been surprised MANY Rapid Lite backers even didnt knew of Rapide One at all. Hell! When I started this forum there were even Rapid ONE subforums in it LOL and NO SINGLE RAPIDE ONE was delivered at all! Even one guy here is still owed $9k grand! But no! The bad guy is ONE guy hacking his email and shutting his factory by asking on FB where is Ethan! LOL

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 02:39 PM
Henk, I *REALLY* doubt IGG is doing ANYTHING against Ethan at all... I'd say Ethan has just teamed with "ethanlievers" and promised them whatever perks in exchange for some love/support on the campaing or whatever... Or just desperate people like Randy that chooses to ban freedom for speech rather than facing the truth as long as his RL350 is not put in danger of not arriving.... See to believe.

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 02:40 PM
And re: paypal payments.... if you paid with paypal FUNDS you're probably fucked up yes, but if funds were taken from your credit card even if thru pAypal, credit cards allow WAAAAY bigger margin of chargeback operation, even a year or in some cases up to TWO years. Just go to your bank and talk to them. Specially if in Europe.

Skinny Kid
10-21-2015, 02:41 PM
I like how more than a few of the positive message about ethan and rapide are from people in Australia.....probably his relatives working to bolster his name and reputation.

The update is a crock of shit....everything that guy says is a lie. I am in it for the long run to try and get my funds back but at the very least do my part to keep as many people away from buying that machine or anything rapide makes.

bolsoncerrado
10-21-2015, 02:55 PM
Btw there's a clear pattern of conduct in the link below, circa 2013:

https://pando.com/2013/06/30/thieves-and-scams-the-problem-with-crowdfunding/



...
When I contacted Micro-Phone, it claimed it was the victim. Ethan Hunt said my tipster had been attempting to extort money from him by undermining his business – and was able to back up his claims with third parties, who corroborated his story.
...

Sounds/Looks familiar?!?

casleth
10-21-2015, 05:09 PM
Oh yes, of course every backer in Australia is undoubtedly related to each other and conspiring together to protect the image of their great leader.
Come on guys, this shiz can't be serious. There's no need to start hating on other backers and slinging unfounded accusations their way as well, stuff is way out of control as is and we won't achieve anything productive by escalating it further and turning on each other.

wormsman
10-21-2015, 09:19 PM
Ethan new update hasn't give us any new infomations about the production failure, status of repair, timeframe for the delivery.

The build quality from my Rapide Lite 200 Form the first campaign is very bad. I had to change the connections, board the bearings and so on.

Ethan told me in august that my Rapide Lite 200XL is currently at the distributor in France. He did not answer my question about the production problems or failure. At the end of august I toughed that I would never get my printer. I told Ethan then that I want to get my Rapide Lite 200XL regardless of the current status (damaged or what ever was wrong with the production). He answers me that it would be impossible because it would be fraud to deliver me a damaged printer.

After that I opened Paypal conflicts for my rapide lite 200 XL, Slider and Extruder V3 perks. That was Ethan answer:

Hi Nicolai,

As i said the parts are defective and it would be illegal for us to ship these parts as they have problems. I have told you that your disputes have closed our PayPal account and PayPal will not return any funds for 180 days from when you opened the dispute. If you close the dispute then we can still send you the machine once the parts are replaced or you can choose to purchase at retail a fully assembled machine from Dennis in Germany which he would be able to deliver in 2 days to you. The retail price for the 200XL in Germany is 3500EUR.


This is a crowd funded campaign and we did not have retail machines for sale you contributed to get a first version of the machine and we have some problems with suppliers and now we need to replace parts. Dennis ordered 10 fully assembled machines from the campaign and they were delivered to him and he will now resell them. Other people who ordered fully assembled machines have already received them.


Let me know what you would prefer to do as we want to assist you as best we can but until with have parts that are safe then we cannot ship the kits and the only alternative is to get a machine from Dennis for 3500EUR, upgrade to fully assembled machine from the factory for $499USD and close your dispute or leave your dispute open and when the kits are ready we will ship the kit minus the parts you have disputed.
best regards

Ethan Hunt
CEO
Rapide 3D
ethan@rapide-3d.com
Perth - +61861021177 (tel:%2B61861021177)
Melbourne - + 61390057427 (tel:%2B%2061390057427)
Hong Kong - +85269300744 (tel:%2B85269300744)
Shenzhen - +8613006667092 (tel:%2B8613006667092)
Skype: rapide.3d





Because I had no more trust in the campaign I did not close the Paypal conflicts and thought that I have lost all my money. End of September/ beginning of October I got unexpected most of my money back from Paypal and Ethan must now only deliver the Rapide Lite 200 to 200XL Upgrade + LCD or refund 488$.

For me the campaign is now fraud and I don't think that more printers will be deliverd.

Broome
10-21-2015, 11:35 PM
Henk and Bolsoncerrado,

I do not think you guys should take it as hard as you seem to do. It is clearly stated that Ethan suspects some kind of gang of contributors who want his distribution rights, money whatever. I actually think he has lost it completely now. Who would seriously trash a brand to take over the rights for distribution in EU, it is illogical and stupid. Why would you wanna trash a brand and then sell it's products? I know I state the obvious three times, but it baffles me in it's absurdity.

I have a company, my friends have companies some are successful and some are not! But no one not even the ones who went for it without a business plan would ever tell people how much they are spending from day one or accuse their customers when something goes wrong. As a CEO you should focus on bringing in money, delegate tasks and not ranting on some campaign page.

I have a 200Xl and it is a nice machine, the lcd is a perfect addon and the slider great. However the extruder is a problem and I will try to emigrate to e3d and v6hotend, maybe chimera. So I am sad too see the forum down!

Let's just try too pretend we are building and problem solving our own printers that came in a kit from china. I do hope you will get your kits soon so we can play again. It is no fun being the only kid on the block with the new toy.

Racer
10-22-2015, 12:48 AM
I don't want to discuss who is wrong or who is right. But shutting down this forum and hiding all the valuable information a lot of people have put into this forums threads means punishing the wrong people, the ones who already spent a lot of money into their printers and as it looks probably will loose also a lot of it by not receiving parts.

Henk
10-22-2015, 06:43 AM
@ Broome: We just want to protect other people from being taken advantage of. The issue is that this fraud should be stopped. I have my own company for the past 38 years, and I agree nobody who is serious in business ever will make the statements Ethan does. These statemenets are typical statements of a fraudster. In these 38 years of doing business I have seen some scams and this one fits into the generic mould.
@ Casleth; The wave of positive messages combined with the accusations is provoking a reaction. Also these mesasages are clearly intended to keep the scam going.

@Bolsoncerrado: Everyone should read the post you pointed to so I repeat the link:
https://pando.com/2013/06/30/thieves-and-scams-the-problem-with-crowdfunding/
(https://pando.com/2013/06/30/thieves-and-scams-the-problem-with-crowdfunding/)
For those who still think RapideLite is a regular campaign it is also interesting to read the comments on another campaign of Ethan:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking)

The power of scams is that hope dies last.
Some people still seem to think their goods will be delivered, the issue is that his is not the case.
It is pointless to state that we should all accept to be scammed because some still need to realize that this is a scam.
Blaming people that want to stop this scam for not getting your goods is missing the point completely.

Iniegogo is making money on a few scams by Ethan while it is perfectly clear these are scams.
Indiegogo is cutting of critical people without any communication about it.
Indiegogo is running a frontstore for campaigns that having nothing to do with crowd funding but all with fraud.
Indiegogo is willingly complicit to fraud.
Indiegogo is yet another VolksWagen.

Broome
10-22-2015, 07:54 AM
@Henk, i support you guys in the general issue. Since there are no actual naming in Ethans update, how can you know itis you that he points a finger at? I have had my dealings with him via email and I could also feel that it was me he was after, but I do not. Have you gotten mails from him particularly stating you as the culprit?

if not, then please take it easy and look at it from a new perspective. Everybody is frustrated and rightly so, but starting to hit on each other are not a good way too move forward. There are some curious statements as to why there is a delay, there are comstant talk about costs and also references to how hard it is too do business in China. There are even indications on people leaving the company and acusing them of stealing their ideas. It is a mess!

But to close down the forum and shut people out from their shared wealth of knowledge is simply put exactly doing what you are being accused of doing. We who posted and helped each other are not to blame and frankly it seems totally unfair to punish your fellow contributors. All the people already owning a rapide printer is unjustly put in an awkward position. So please rethink this position as it is not in any way helping your cause.

bolsoncerrado
10-22-2015, 08:35 AM
@Racer no one is punishing anyone here. I'm not hiding anything. What I wont do is "helping" this guy out with FREE support forums to his brand and helping him out fixing HIS issues FOR FREE and at the same time being called names and being owed money, it's quite easy to understand. I invested quite a handful of money in this brand

a) by investing in his crowdfunding
b) by investing in this forum (domain, hosting, security, licenses....)
c) by spending free and spare time helping everyone i could, for free, providing tutorials, help, etc etc etc


@All:
And oh, besides the MicroPhone scam/pattern pointed out so when you call him for attention, he accuses YOU instead, you should realize this as well:
http://www.print3dforum.com/showthread.php/629-IndieGoGo-Campaign-The-Rapide3D-Owed-LIST?p=21740&viewfull=1#post21740

Everyone knows what a Ponzi scheme is, right?

We'll sit and wait.

SO far, the last update from Ethan contained NOTHING regarding real updates on WHEN your perks are coming and he NEVER mentioned anything regarding the Chinese holidays (concidence!?) halting the production nor being "Out of stock" in parts like he did in the last update but instead attacked US (see the pattern again?). The ball is in HIS court. I sent him an email yesterday. He has the PATH and freedom to choose now.

I'll repeat.

The choice is HIS.

He can do the right thing or the wrong thing. Not me. HIM.

Depending on HIS choice, I (or we)'ll proceed further.

But i'll recover MY (our) money. THat's for sure. Even if i have to invest three, seven or a trillion on the path.

I'm SICK of scammers. Already.

bolsoncerrado
10-22-2015, 08:53 AM
(https://pando.com/2013/06/30/thieves-and-scams-the-problem-with-crowdfunding/)...
For those who still think RapideLite is a regular campaign it is also interesting to read the comments on another campaign of Ethan:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking)

The power of scams is that hope dies last.
Some people still seem to think their goods will be delivered, the issue is that his is not the case.
It is pointless to state that we should all accept to be scammed because some still need to realize that this is a scam.
Blaming people that want to stop this scam for not getting your goods is missing the point completely.
...

Thats EXACTLY what Randy Holgamods did by banning me. LOL

Broome
10-22-2015, 09:48 AM
@Bolsoncerrado, Alex please open up the forum again. I understand your frustration, but the only thing you are doing is giving Ethan ammo for justifying his claims. If it is a scam, I will stand by you in every way, but there are still a lot of people with 200 lite printers that are locked out now.

And what jumper where you talking about in the usb trouble shooting post? The one where you drive the board from usb?

bolsoncerrado
10-22-2015, 10:38 AM
You are quite a few that repeat the same. Can you please explain how do I help Ethan by "closing the forums"?

Broome
10-22-2015, 10:51 AM
Sure, the issue is that someone is blackmailing him, right. Well since you put out the letter and also shut down the forum you are doing exactly what he acused you of. From your point of view you are angry and justly so. But by shutting down the forum you are playing into his hands and using leverege (this forum) to get what you want (money or printer). In his update he stated that someone was trying to hurt him and his products by sabotaging his brand. This is done according to him by registrering and keeping domains, forums associated with the brand and then blackmailing him for money and distribution rights.

i am not at all saying that this is true, it is a matter of apperence and speculation. But you are giving him a justified claim from his point of view.

Broome
10-22-2015, 11:02 AM
I have also read all of the different accusations surrounding campaigns associated with Ethan Hunt and I must say that a pattern are emerging. However it seems to me that he is just a very bad entrepreneur and seems to have ideas but not much organisational skills to pull them off and actually make a factory and a distribution network working. I seriously doubt that he is capeble of doing a elaborate ponzi scam.

that being said I think that the brand is just self dying and he tries as he alwyas seem to do to blame others for his own short comings.

Alex as I understand it you have three Rapide lite printers and are invested in the brand more then me. All the better reason to get the forum up again and at least let us migrate the posts to a different forum if you do not want to be in charge anymore.

Solice
10-22-2015, 11:18 AM
For the most part, I agree with Broome. When we think about who is actually hurt much when a resource is cut off, I think the users are hurt more than the Rapide team when this forum is unavailable. At the very least, they can find and solve issues together. Assuming it's actually possible to eventually get my promised widgets in the mail one day, it would be nice to have solutions to defects already worked out by users while I try to contribute to discussions.

In light of this, I propose the following. Open the discussions back up, but make it clear in some fashion (maybe using the announcement widget or a sticky?) that you protest and disagree with the current situation, and that this site is to help the people affected by the campaign and to provide what engineering shortcomings the Rapide team.

Henk
10-22-2015, 01:04 PM
Some people wonder why I feel directly targeted.

From the details it is clear Ethan has specific people in mind. Which in my case is no wonder given my messages on the campaign board and because I complained with IndieGoGo. Suggesting criminal conduct although more in general is crossing the line and I want to react on that and be very clear on this. Also Indiegogo is crossing a line by publishing this content. I have been closed off from IndieGoGo and cannot post messages. I did not recieve any communication by Indiegogo on this matter beyond a confirmation of the original complaint. I do not receive an acknowledgment of reception on further mails to Indiegogo.

So it is not hard to feel adressed. But then again the personal attack is not so important, the general attitude is what matters. The fact that it is by now fully clear that the Ethan story is a repeating story makes it also easier to absorb. If you read a little in the campaign messages he runs and add the article that was pointed to earlier, then it is a clear case. That is why Indiegogo should stop this campaign or are willingly complicit to fraud, it is too obvious that this is a scam.

FYI.
I have also backed the MH370 campaign. Without going into further detail I think it is below any standard of morality to take advantage of a situation like that. If people can find by Googling that a person is a fraudster why then can Indiegogo not find this. There are some well understood risks involved in crowdfunding, fraude is not one of them.


Yesterday I did send this to the Indiego mail account that I received the acknowledgement of complaint from:

>>For your information.
A business partner of mine has been approached by Ethan for distribution in Europe but declined.
The paranoid story Ethan is putting on the site now has nothing to do with reality.
Also we are not trying to take his business.
All we want is prevent other people from being taken advantage off.
This is not an action by a few people or a orchestrated action.

Also it is clear that there are many people complaining for a long time now and Ethan did not react for a long time.
At least he now reacts.


This morning I did send these two mails to IndieGoGo:


Dear xxxxxx,

Please read this post:
https://pando.com/2013/06/30/thieves-and-scams-the-problem-with-crowdfunding/

Regards,



Hi xxxxx,

I also advise you to read the comments on another Indiegogo campaign by Mr Hunt:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking)

You have now closed me off, but that will not change much since a lot of people are angry and other people have started a specific thread on print3dforums:http://www.print3dforum.com/forumdisplay.php/27-IndieGoGo-RAPIDE-LITE-OWES-MONEY-Forum

The campaigns by Mr. Hunt are a clear scam and you are hurting the Indiegogo brandname by the actions that have been taken and not taken.
Also I think it is unacceptable to be taken of the message board without having received any message on the issue directly from Indiegogo.

Regards,

haxed
10-22-2015, 01:41 PM
Thank you for doing this. Everyone who backed Rapide One had given up hope, especially after empty promises of refunds, unanswered emails, and when updates on that campaign completely stopped.

bolsoncerrado
10-22-2015, 02:54 PM
I beg your pardon but there's a SLIGHT "but" in your thoughts, broome...

Ethan DOES NOT OWN these forums. Hence my blackmailing is NON EXISTANT. THey're not HIS property, hence I'm not blackmailing him at ALL. It is not "Get me the money back or i shut the forums down". It's "I'm not supportive on your brand because you're STEALING ME, CALLING ME NAMES AND OWING ME MONEY", PERIOD. THere's a slight difference. If you change your prism and side of view it's YOUR problem, not mine. Not to mention the money i ask him IS MINE, NOT HIS, not AIR MONEY created from BLACKMAIL! See the difference!?

If you still want to think I'm a blackmailer, then go ahead. As I tried to explain, I've spent enough money in this, from MY pocket, time from MY family and MY spare time on this and ENERGIES from MY being to keep holding more onto this subject for him. I'm not SUPPORTING HIM ANYMORE. Period. THe forum will be back not because I'm blackmailing him, not because he owes me money directly. It's because he has taken this to MY personal field and MY belongings, period. If you or any others dont want to understand this and still want to play the "im the villiain, ethan is the winner", its your choice.

Otherwise, try walking in MY shoes again and set up my POINT of view instead of his....or YOUR OWN interest.

My final word on this is that I'm done with the brand RAPIDE 3D and RAPIDE PRINTERS to the moment I get my investment back. No matter what it takes. So whenever that happens, this forum will belong to someone else, I'll quit. Until then, this forum is in stand by, with 90% of the content available, and the remaining part in standby, until I decide what to do. I find unfair to still help him "finding bugs on his chance of running a legit business and fixing things out" while he still owes me money and publicly emails thousands of backers calling me a criminal. It's this simple. PERIOD.

This forum has proven to be able to find bugs Ethan nor his team was aware of and wether he applied modifications or not, he is trying to setup himself as a legit business or not, our forum is a 100% legit tool that is a 100% valid asset to HIM, to HELP him. and of course to help us too. Hence until we find out if he is a complete scam or a complete legit, the forums remain in stand by.

Widestorm
10-22-2015, 03:14 PM
Let me start off by saying that I've been in good faith that I will recieve my perks from the 200XL campaign until last update.
I have been getting more and more sceptical about it since communication has been scarce to say the least.

After some research I'm getting worried even more, hearing about past Campaigns of Ethan. I will try to message him directly in the next few days. As I'm not expecting any answer whatsoever I will then message IndieGogo and my credit card company asking for what they can do. (Since I probably won't get anything until I at least try).
At least I'm thinking that's the right course of action here.

Having missed the PayPal deadline sadly this seems to be the only way...

@Broome
I really think bolsoncerrado is completeley in the right to shut down the forum for now, even though it is unfair to those wo have a printer.
He's not affiliated in any way to Ethans business thus completely eliminating any justification of blackmailing.

Let's wait and see what's comming now...
I'm certainly not sitting here doing nothing for much longer.

bolsoncerrado
10-22-2015, 03:15 PM
And OH BTW Broome, something that falls under its weight alone: If Ethan is here to run a BUSINESS in good faith he for sure will do ANYTHING to save his users, customers, perkers, supporters, will do anything to deliver the owed perks and will do anything to help this VALUED TOOL named print3dforum.com to stay alive. Am I right?

Yeah!

Ps.
In ANY OTHER crowdfunding project I've been onto, ANY ceo that has seen troll activity or floods from troublemakers, the first thing he has done is refunding the troublemaker, END of the story. No time for retaliations, no time for massmailing in "blackmail" mode, no time for "i'm not guilty, perkers are hacking me!", and of course no time to keep months of SILENCE and perks undelivered in any SERIOUS campaign run by SERIOUS teams.

bolsoncerrado
10-22-2015, 05:56 PM
Btw the "infamous" Micro-Phone campaign is still online (LOL):

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micro-phone-our-amazing-device-is-now-available-with-bluetooth-4-0-ble-tracking--17/x/8784579#/comments

Broome
10-22-2015, 06:42 PM
@Bolsoncerrado,

I got an email from Ethan saying I'm taking your side, all this from a comment I left on the Indiegogo site. Now I get a rant from you saying I take Ethans side. Ethan even sent me some pictures of him being arrested and in a world of hurt. BTW he thinks it is all your fault! What you did I do not know, but for me you showed some pretty peculiar behavior. You are of course responsible for at least shutting down your forum at least. Taking away work that a lot of people not only you contributed to the forum! Ethan also claimed that you tried to get him to pay 5000USD for the work you did on the forum bla, blah. WTF! I do not take anyones side I just want a working printer and a nice forum to hang out in.

I do not care about both (you and Ethan) your childish rants and suppose that you are locked in som kind of cock fight. Well whatever! I bought a Ultimaker 2 Extended today and are happy to move outside of everyones sight trying to suddenly blaming me and forcing me into a corner. This is just ridiculous!

Thomas

jasonized
10-22-2015, 07:39 PM
@broome has the most mature attitude. Alex, you stated on the IGG site that "Ethan controls the keys [to the forum]". But here you say you own it. Sounds like a politician's response to not getting his way... "He made me take away your rights!". Broome is right; all you are doing is holding hostage all the work other people have put into making their printer work. I highly doubt Ethan is browsing the forum daily looking for fixes for his product. Has someone come up with ideas he might use? Probably. Heck, even I posted on IGG that I would use locktite on the screws when I get my printer... Maybe he read that and went "Oh, yeah! That'll fix it!". Good. If not, why do I care? It might help people who already own one and didn't think of it. Cool.

But what you are doing is called terrorism. Holding other peoples work, hints, and discussions hostage because you are not happy. I can not dispute your right to disassociate yourself from the product. A mature person would say "Hey, I'm going to close this, anyone feel like taking it over?" and let someone else take the hints, articles and such and put it somewhere else. A nice person would even help them move it. Then delete the forum. But to say "I'm not happy, so nobody has access to what they created because I own everything here", is not cool.

You can cloak it in all the UPPPER case and LOWER case retorts you want, it doesn't hide the fact that you, personally, are hurting innocent people who are trying to make as much of a possible bad decision as they can. It's not going to help them get their money back, it's not going to help them do anything.. except think you're as bad as you claim he is. If as you claim Ethan doesn't care, then letting people get the most of of their printer isn't helping him, because he isn't responding anyway. All you're doing is proving you're one of those playground bullies, who can't help people, but they can keep others from playing.

If you don't want to have a Rapide3d form, I'll be glad to help you move it. I'm one of those who are still hoping to receive my printer, eventually. I'm not taking his side, and I'm not taking your side. I'm supporting those people who are doing what they can, with what they have. So please re-open the forum, or at least facilitate the moving of the content to someone who is willing to maintain it. If you want, I would even be willing to go through and rename your contributions, so that nobody would know of your shame.

Thanks.

synthius
10-23-2015, 04:17 AM
@jasonized,@Broome. This forum was paid for, created by, and managed by bolsoncerrado. Therefore, he has the right to do whatever he chooses with it. Without this forum, I find it hard to believe that Rapidlite 200 would make it as far as it has. Rapidlite's quality control was down right abysmal, and rapid customer service was non existent. We as a community(this forum) have put so much time into correcting the deficiencies of Ethans poorly designed printer and what have we recieved?? Nothing, not even the perks we have paid for. I am still waiting for my V3 Extruder. Ethan was pretty good with sending me long emails with excuses why I haven't received it yet. He must have ran out of excuses on the last email because he sent me an email with a tracking number that did not even exist in the mail tracker system. He even told me it was delivered but nobody was there to sign for it. There was never even a record of its existence on the mail tracker system.

Now back to Bolsoncerrado. You, we, us, have indirectly provided Ethans company with customer service whether we know it or not. He has saved so much money by not investing in his own forum or customer service reps. And what have we received?? Nothing! He is not active on this forum nor is he even a member to my knowledge. I for one have grown tired of hearing how much money Ethan has dumped into this product. Bolsoncerrado is dumping his own time and money into this forum to help us and in so he is indirectly helping Ethans company. Why should Bolsoncerrado continue to help Ethan, especially when Ethan has gone off the deep and accusing the ones who are helping him the most??
I was pretty active on this forum and do have a lot of post,tutorials,content on this site. Am I upset that I can't access it? a little. Will I continue to indirectly help out the rapidlite company by posting future tutorials and fixes? HELL NO. This machine was a time/money pit for me and I will not longer support an unprofessional CEO like Ethan, whether it be on this forum or a different one.

I support Bolsoncerrado. Good luck. Hopefully Ethan realizes that he should not turn his back on the ones that help him the most!

jasonized
10-23-2015, 04:48 AM
@jasonized,@Broome. This forum was paid for, created by, and managed by bolsoncerrado. Therefore, he has the right to do whatever he chooses with it.

Never said he didn't. I just said he's acting like a terrorist, and holding other peoples work hostage, while blaming his actions on someone else. The flaming rants are not helping, nor are they something that makes him look like a reasonable person.


We as a community(this forum) have put so much time into correcting the deficiencies of Ethans poorly designed printer and what have we recieved?? Nothing, not even the perks we have paid for.

[...]

You, we, us, have indirectly provided Ethans company with customer service whether we know it or not. He has saved so much money by not investing in his own forum or customer service reps. And what have we received?? Nothing! He is not active on this forum nor is he even a member to my knowledge.



You're still missing the point. Of course you haven't been paid. I don't know of anyone's blog getting "paid" unless they are advertising. You and everyone else are doing it for yourselves, and it's great if others can benefit. That's helpful, to make the most of what you have, and fix things on your own, not waiting for non-existent customer service. Having that turned off in a temper tantrum just hurts other people, and has no effect on Ethan. He doesn't care, remember? So if it has no effect on Ethan, what good does turning it off do?



I for one have grown tired of hearing how much money Ethan has dumped into this product. Bolsoncerrado is dumping his own time and money into this forum to help us and in so he is indirectly helping Ethans company.


Well, yes, I'm tired of hearing about the money too. But really, how much "money" does one extra board take when Bolsoncerrado already has a system up and running? I've run some over the years, and no, one extra doesn't cost anything. Now, if this entire system was started just for the rapide system, you might have a point.




I was pretty active on this forum and do have a lot of post,tutorials,content on this site. Am I upset that I can't access it? a little. Will I continue to indirectly help out the rapidlite company by posting future tutorials and fixes? HELL NO. This machine was a time/money pit for me and I will not longer support an unprofessional CEO like Ethan, whether it be on this forum or a different one.


Never said you shouldn't, either. If I ever get my machine, I will gladly help expand and extend it if anyone asks, but I doubt I will report anything I do to Ethan. I don't see the point. And, as you said, since he's not even a member, and doesn't read here, none of your fixes and extensions would be "helping" him in any fashion.

Don't mix up his being a scammer/whatever with what you are doing; it's like saying "I'm a vegetarian because you ran over a dog". Doesn't make any sense. Do what you want to do, or don't. Just don't blame others (deserved or not).

bolsoncerrado
10-23-2015, 05:53 AM
Well rants are over. Ethan just posted that he's not affiliated / I'm not affiliated to the brand, hence, no blackmailing. Voila! Forums back online!

Now, LIST IS STILL BEING UPDATED!

Where are the perks? Where are the printers?

bet you something! I wont be getting my money back!

bolsoncerrado
10-23-2015, 05:54 AM
@Bolsoncerrado,

Ethan also claimed that you tried to get him to pay 5000USD for the work you did on the forum bla, blah.


Thomas


Thank you for that. THIS proves what kind of SCUM, LIAR and bad person he is. Now, based on his past activity on aaaall his past indiegogo campaigns I really think you'll never see your printers/perks.... all the last posts he made to the campaigns start with "someone annoyed me to the point I was arrested because of them". LOL

ievolve
10-23-2015, 05:56 AM
My 2 cents, @bolsoncerrado can do whatever he wants to with his site, he owes nothing to ethan or any of us. It sucks, but lets move forward. So.... Curious what printers everyone will be replacing their Rapide with? I have a newmatter coming, but really want something very serviceable and reliable, particularly with the hotend. Thoughts?

bolsoncerrado
10-23-2015, 05:57 AM
Thanks for understanding, ievolve.

You can use any other subforum for that.

bolsoncerrado
10-23-2015, 06:19 AM
CIRCA September?




We currently do not have stock of the fully assembled models left in the factory and are no longer able to offer the fully upgrade option until we have parts available which will be in 4 weeks.



On 23rd Oct 2015 Update:




We currently have over $500,000 worth of printers, parts and materials collecting dust in our factory. This is a very frustrating situation and one that could well have been avoided.

3DFran
10-23-2015, 10:15 AM
Hey Bolsoncerrado, I was allucinating (so saying) when I read the news on FB and then came to here to know something more about the issue...
Simply astonishing.
I'm not putting more "gas on the fire", but simply say I'm totally with you and the rest of people still waiting for the "product".
Also myself I have had a pair of "non answered" emails from that particular from Rapide, simply I was asking for replacement parts.
So for me, I was suspecting something was "wrong" at a bussiness level with this man/company, and still worse, as last readings show, also he fails on the "polite" side.
In the end, I was lucky as I was thinking on ORDERING another Rapide printer... My "6-th" sense made me refuse the idea. How lucky I was!

For me it is proven that this forum has been an unvaluable source of help for all of us who had the luck to have the printer. It would be a pitty if it closes, but for sure I'll understand the reasons to do so. At the end, it really seems a dilemma.
Anyway, I THANK you for your work at this forum (and to all the contributors-members), and I desire the best luck in order to solve the monetary problem (again, extensive to all the waiting-for-the-printer members).
Cheer up!

bolsoncerrado
10-23-2015, 10:18 AM
Thanks Fran!

haxed
10-23-2015, 05:35 PM
Should we be concerned that their given office is linked to dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of other companies? https://www.google.com/search?q=suite+2512+langham+place+office+tower

synthius
10-23-2015, 06:22 PM
Should we be concerned that their given office is linked to dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of other companies? https://www.google.com/search?q=suite+2512+langham+place+office+tower

Be careful, you may be accused of tracking his movements/espionage.:p

bolsoncerrado
10-23-2015, 06:39 PM
Lol lol lol

OliverM
10-23-2015, 06:40 PM
Be careful, you may be accused of tracking his movements/espionage.:p

Looks like a virtual office with mail drop. That would explain the different business names at the same address.

lharris
10-25-2015, 02:53 AM
Due to the non-response to emails and comments on the igg site from Ethan I called my credit card company to dispute the charges and had them reversed. I paid through paypal with a credit card and so far it has been no problem. There is a 90 day window but since Ethan pushed the date of delivery back and there is evidence of him promising shipment back in Sept., they said that was ok. Ethan has to prove he has shipped your printer for the dispute to be challenged. There are some other good printers out there - on kickstarter or retail- may cost a bit more but also may not have the design problems this one does.
I suggest you try while you still can. I think there will be crisis after crisis and even if they are delivered there will be minimal support.

bolsoncerrado
10-25-2015, 09:34 AM
Agreed lharris. As you could see, even if he said "the factory is "blocked"", he still sells on ebay the printers...

Henk
10-27-2015, 02:02 PM
ievolve (http://www.print3dforum.com/member.php/263-ievolve),


I'm backing the E3D BigBox printer.
E3D is an established well known company and I believe they are on their way to produce a great printer.

http://bigbox-3d.com/
(http://bigbox-3d.com/)
Since I have become less enthousiastic about crowdfunding I backed the Morpheus printer with the $ 3,- "keep me informed" perk.
If/When that printer is ready for sale this might be very interesting.

bolsoncerrado
10-27-2015, 03:57 PM
I did back a Morpheus. I'll let you know if they deliver!

Henk
10-27-2015, 08:22 PM
Will be interesting to hear how it goes with delivery and how the printer functions.

bolsoncerrado
10-27-2015, 08:57 PM
The MarkIV will be quite "homemade" until they "invest" in the "commercial" version next year, yeah, we'll see...

Solice
10-27-2015, 09:42 PM
I'd join that campaign, but I'm so burned-out trying to get a 3D printer from a startup. They all looked promising, with all their ducks in a row.

bolsoncerrado
10-27-2015, 09:49 PM
Well Rapide WAS a great printer (once reworked from scratch lol), bad administered, but great from a basis point of view... It could have done lots of harm to competing printers... But now it's gone.

The Form was born from Kickstarter and they just launched Form2...

We'll see what future brings us. For those of you not willing to wait to Morpheus, a neighbour spanish brand is selling this one, which looks quite great too IMHO, specially the HD+ version.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIAXxAQs3ag

Joao
10-27-2015, 10:49 PM
I also decided to buy another printer while waiting for the next chapter of this Rapide drama.

I bought for 260 a dual extruder CTC printer (clone of MakerBot Replicator 2).
At least the delivery takes only 2 days, has eBay user protection, and thousands of printers already sold.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CTC-3D-Printer-Dual-Extruder-MK8-Factory-Direct-Lowest-Price-ABS-PLA-/331690694790

I was also tempted to buy the BigBox, but I don't want to wait that long once again and the CTC is incredibly cheap...

Solice
10-27-2015, 11:14 PM
That's a nice find! Doesn't ship to my country, but it gets me thinking. Maybe i'll just get a printrbot to tool around with.

bolsoncerrado
10-28-2015, 08:39 AM
Glad to see you're still alive Joao!

Someone posted somewhere those CTCs are full of issues... may be that's the reason for the cheap prices...

Not sure if these CTCs are the same company as these othere CTCs I'm currently backing (and on time to remove my perk):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2141865151/ctc-4-in-1-cnc-mill-laser-pcb-3d-printer-all-in-on/description

May be they just learned some lessons and redoing from scratch?

Thing is this is the third time CTC had the campaign removed from KS as another CTC company (based in USA) tried to bash them arguing they stole their website, idea and designs... Apparently these currently standing are the legit ones now, and the CTC USA based was an USA individual hired by CTC to manage the Kickstarter campaign from there.

BobenhamHotspur
10-28-2015, 09:09 AM
I also decided to buy another printer while waiting for the next chapter of this Rapide drama.

I bought for 260 a dual extruder CTC printer (clone of MakerBot Replicator 2).
At least the delivery takes only 2 days, has eBay user protection, and thousands of printers already sold.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CTC-3D-Printer-Dual-Extruder-MK8-Factory-Direct-Lowest-Price-ABS-PLA-/331690694790

I was also tempted to buy the BigBox, but I don't want to wait that long once again and the CTC is incredibly cheap...
So you got it for the opening bid price! :DHope it works out, let us know how it goes. Looking at the description text I would say it's definitely a Chinese version rather than the USA one but that may not be a problem, only time will tell.

bolsoncerrado
10-28-2015, 09:24 AM
The USA ones are actually the counterfeits based on the comments on all the kickstarter campaigns....

Joao
10-28-2015, 10:29 AM
I reckon that all the printers get counterfeit at some point by the same manufactures that are building the branded ones.
You can easily find on eBay clones of almost all printers.
Even the BigBox very clearly shows where their components are coming from, having the cargo ship being monitored coming from China.

If the CTC has many issues, it would be most likely the same as all the other pre-assembled from China.
I believe that a thorough review of all screws, wires, etc, will bring the printer to an accepted standard.

By the way if you are interested on a Form 1+ SLA http://formlabs.com/products/3d-printers/form-1-plus/, you might have a look to the CTC version of it for only 599 (1/4 of the price) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CTC-SLA-3D-printer-Stereolithography-SLA-technology-free-Resins-/351461330095
This CTC SLA has a few Youtube reviews and comparisons, and again, the printer is exactly the same expect a few cosmetic differences. Even the LCD has the same interface and the original FlashForm brand.

bolsoncerrado
10-28-2015, 10:47 AM
I hear the problem with the Forms is they're a PITA to clean up... if anyone owns one (Mitch?) can confirm?

Skinny Kid
10-28-2015, 03:18 PM
I am waiting and watching to see what type of resin printer I will invest in....the morpheus looks great.

I ditched rapide and bought an UM2....no regrets at all.

I am also buying the big box from E3D.

bolsoncerrado
10-28-2015, 04:07 PM
I looked around the BigBox website... the structure is either wood or acrilyc? Is that so?

Skinny Kid
10-28-2015, 06:16 PM
Base model is wood. Upgrade to acrylic in white, sapphire blue or combination of white and blue (yet to see a pic of this one) for $99.

All I know is I can have a big box pro assembled and shipped to me from the UK for $1350 USD. It will also have an easy upgrade to dual nozzles or other E3D products like the Kraken or Volcano set up. I will do that down the road.

edit: that price also includes Raspberry Pi and camera with Octoprint and Simplify3D with it. :cool:

Henk
10-28-2015, 06:22 PM
Indeed the basic model is laser cut plywood, the upgrade to acrylic is EU 99,- extra.
I backed for a dual head Volcano + acrylic version.
The design is Open Source.
I'm wondering what would happen if the panels are locally made from laser cut steel.
That would be a heavy printer (expensive to ship, so locally made) but not very expensive to make and could be very stable.
I'm looking for fast printing.

bolsoncerrado
10-28-2015, 07:56 PM
I thought the Octoprint was 99 extra and the simplify was 99 extra on top of all the above options....

I dont know how reliable is at this point the plywood or the acrilyc.... All printers are going the steel route, and the bearing route should go the slider route...

I know it's a cheap printer, of course, but it's also a "lost" investment in the medium to long run.

However look what milstream did to his ItWhoMustNotBeNamed Lite 200 (http://www.print3dforum.com/showthread.php/636-How-To-200-to-200XL?p=22426&viewfull=1#post22426)!

Skinny Kid
10-29-2015, 04:37 AM
The Octoprint and S3D are extra, I think the printer is $999....that $1350 is for the pro printer and those items with shipping. :cool:

As far as reliability goes.....acrylic works more than just fine. My UM2 is acrylic and it hasn't shown any issues as I near 3000 hours of print time.

Plus as mentioned, with open source and access to all the laser cut files, you could switch to steel or whatever if you wanted to.

Henk
11-05-2015, 05:17 PM
The latest 3 announcement of november 6'th are interesting again:
- The way he reacts is proof that the campaign is being disturbed, so far so good.
- According to mr. "Hunt" just a few people are the reason for that. Any normal business would pay those few people back and give them no further reason to complain instead mr. "Hunt" is attrackting more and more attention to his latest problems.
- He states he is not able to produce anymore due to a few messages on an Indiegogo board, which is another way of saying I see a chance to deliver nothing anymore and blame other people for that.

Most interesting is that he actually describes what has been done, but claims the opposite: "Careless and deliver faulty product to contributors and cover it off as beta production and then sell upgrades to solve the problems. We would have saved the issues with delay, the cost of replacements and profited from the upgrades in the future. .... Option 1, would have created some backlash in the short term but in 6 months once people had upgraded the parts it would have been forgotten. Fortunately for contributors this was never an option in our minds."

When I proposed to deliver an upgrade instead of the dual head I got an a-mail back offering me the upgrade for more than $ 600,-. When I answered that I was not going to spend that much money on upgrading this printer I never got an answer again. However we can now know that we have been delivered faulty printers with the intention to upgrade them at a high price.

LOL: "Part of the delays we are experiencing is a result of the continued negative comments on the campaign, which are being monitored to determine our worthiness for the issue of a license. These comments are also making those who will control the license less willing to work with us when they feel this could adversely affect their futures and are now requiring we pay a substantial deposit to them for the use of the license when it is issued." (Since I cannot post on the campaign anymore it cannot be me that kills his business http://www.print3dforum.com/images/smilies/smile.png.)

He allegedly has invested over $ 8.000.000,- and his factory is closed by people that he owes a total of about $ 52.748,- according to the list on this site (last updated: 10/29/15 16:22GMT+1). When paying back the 39 people that have stated they are unhappy he could run his 8 million dollar factory with 100 employees and churn out printers at a big profit ;). I would pay the unhappy people back instead of paying a substantial deposit. And I would put on my site and let all customers know that all problems are solved instead of delving deeper and deeper into the problems.

However, getting the money back from mr. "Hunt" is not the issue. The issue is that Indiegogo must be stopped in knowingly supporting obvious fraudulent campaigns.

Henk
11-11-2015, 07:34 AM
THE RAPIDE LITE CAMPAIGN IS CLOSED!!!
All Ethan Hunt campaigns are closed now as far as I know.
By making it so personal it was made a challenge...
It took 24 days...

Indiegogo now owes us a great thank you for helping them to do the right thing.

bolsoncerrado
11-11-2015, 09:45 AM
So, dead end now? What do YOU all in the list want to do now?

>> Please VOTE! (http://www.print3dforum.com/showthread.php/651-Rapide3D-Owed-List-NEXT-STEP-Poll-Your-Action-is-REQUIRED-Please-Vote%21)

lharris
11-11-2015, 01:42 PM
So what does that mean - its closed. He is off the hook for refunds/fulfilment or orders?

bolsoncerrado
11-11-2015, 01:45 PM
I think so. He keeps repeating he's lack of factory but he keeps selling on ebay. He keeps repeating he's short of funds but keeps trying to recoup on sales thru Indiegogo. Delays, excuses, more delays, more excuses. Do your own math man...

Solice
11-11-2015, 03:13 PM
I think so. He keeps repeating he's lack of factory but he keeps selling on ebay. He keeps repeating he's short of funds but keeps trying to recoup on sales thru Indiegogo. Delays, excuses, more delays, more excuses. Do your own math man...

Yeah. If he sunk $8m into the project and only took in about $200k, while still being considered a success, there was something wrong from the beginning.

bolsoncerrado
11-11-2015, 03:48 PM
"Here lies Xxxxxx, the guy that sunk that $8M factory with a single email...." lol

Henk
11-11-2015, 06:27 PM
@lharris,

Basically it just means he can make no more victims.
He cannot take new orders but still has to deliver all the perks legally speaking.
For all practical purposes everybody that stepped into this Indiegogo and "the Crowdfund network" backed scam lost their money unless we can get it back from IGG and probably the Crodwfund Network.
The Crowdfund network has been proudly backing Ethan Hunt, so they have been helping this scam actively.

lharris
11-14-2015, 03:46 PM
If he really has 8 million invested (presumably not his own money) then I really don't think we will hear from him again. Bigger players will take matters into their hands and his body may never be found. I really doubt their was significant backers in this venture -/big money would never have invested in him.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk