Rapide3D Owed List NEXT STEP Poll: Your Action is REQUIRED - Please Vote!

[bolsoncerrado]

A vote opened to those whose nick appears in the Owed list (http://www.print3dforum.com/showthread.php/629-IndieGoGo-Campaign-The-Rapide3D-Owed-LIST) ONLY! (If you're owed money by Rapide3D and your name/nick is not on the list, add it first prior voting by relpying on that thread!)

Now that all Rapide3D campaigns on IndieGoGo are closed for further (pre)orders and it's quite unlikely Rapide3D will recieve any more funds, and seems clear they were expecting those funds to fulfill past due orders, the question is clear:

What do YOU want to do?

[Solice]

I want to be realistic here. Is the a valid course of action that can result in some form of recompense? I don't have anymore money to throw at a legal endeavor.

[bolsoncerrado]

Solice,

Since there is a vast amount of different amounts owed its difficult to say. I'd say in the event there are more charges to be handled (legal firms or whatever) I guess we would divide the costs by the amounts based on % owed to be ethically distributed so if someone is owed $10K will pay more to the law firm than someone that is owed just $25, BUT the actual key here is to do the right thing or not...

In the event we decide to move forward, I'd choose to create a PRIVATE group where only those interested would be able to read/post privately. I do think, with all the past activities that company has, it shouldnt be that hard to win the case...

[Widestorm]

I've just opened a support ticket to IndieGoGo and I'm generally for the plan on taking action. However I'm not ready to pay anyting extra.
The one thing I'm interested in is getting my money back or getting the printer itself.
I've spent enough time already researching about the works of Ethan, leaving me to believe none of the above is going to happen.

Let's see if my credit card company can still do something even after the expiration period for complaints, since they obviously seem to have planned for this ti expire.

I'm really just unsure.

[bolsoncerrado]

Depends on how long did you pay for it... Did you use all the funds from the Credit Card? You may be lucky...

[Widestorm]

Yes I used just the one credit card for the payment. And it was early march. Although the issuing company sais a payment can only be questioned 30 days after payment I think there is a way...
I'm just not sure what I'd have to do. If you have any advice on this I would be glad.

[bolsoncerrado]

CC companies can handle chargebacks up to 1 year i think, it all depends on your bank I think... i wouldnt loose much more time and would run go talk to them tomorrow asap...

[Henk]

Which credit card company and which country are you in?
Not long ago I got mony back through VISA just within a 6 months period after paying.
This was actually quite an easy procedure.

You should look for charge back.
I did send one e-mail to the chargeback account and provided some information on the transaction
In that case it was Filabot who did not deliver and tried a trick to make VISA believe they were going to deliver.
However that was stopped soon and VISA paid me back.

Act immediately, everyday lost is lowering your chance.

[Widestorm]

It's a MasterCard and I'm located in Switzerland. Although the issuing company is a different one.
Now, should I contact MasterCard directly?

[Henk]

Most likely you should contact the issuing company.
I would start at their website and search for charge back, or search google for "charge back" with option site:domain_issuing_company

[bolsoncerrado]

Now thats weird, I've always started chargebacks from my bank where they issued me the CC.... may be it works different there, but anyway, good move.

[Widestorm]

I'm not really knowledgeable in these kind of things, although I think the Bank can only do as much as the issuing company can and the issuing company can only do as much as MasterCard or Visa allows for.

Anyways, following this principle I've reseached a bit further down the line and I found the following:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/TB_CB_Manual.pdf
Section "4.6.9 Message Reason Code 79—Goods or Services Not Provided" clearly states:
"After 120 calendar days from the transaction settlement date or the date the goods or services were to be provided, the issuer may file a precompliance, followed by a compliance case (if applicable), when a system limitation prevents a valid chargeback."

Meaning that after 120 from expected delivery date, we still have the chargeback option. Since the expected delivery date has been shifted so much I doubt anybody is going to have a problem if they paid with MasterCard or Visa.
Especially now that they display "Estimated delivery: January 2016" on the perk itself.


Same for Visa:
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/chargeback-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf
Section "Reson Code 30: Services Not Provided Or Merchandise Not Recieved" on page 45.

[bolsoncerrado]

Any update Widestorm?

[gearmesh]

I am not sure we can go forward with a class action suit. Not sure this situation would fit the criteria. If so though, I would be in. I am not sure if the suit goes against Indiegogo or Rapide 3D. Indiegogo did not protect the consumer and has allowed Ethan to continually accept (take) money without delivering.

I am bummed because I paid through a VISA debit card which does not have the protect that a credit card has.

[bolsoncerrado]

I dont agree gearmesh: protection should still be the same, the only difference, as you pointed out, is the credit vs debit, but the consumer protection should be the same on the VISA side...

For details on what we do finally, we'll move any discussion to a private forum.

[Maindog]

Sorry guys, but I'm not putting any more time in over $80 (I've since bought the items elsewhere anyway). Best of luck to you all though, hope you all get what you're after. Cheers

[emubird]

in regards to rapide-3d i suspect a legal judgement in favor of supporters would be easily won. however, given rapide-3d's principal's "habits" (and unknown local)... i suspect collecting on that judgement would be nearly impossible, so i consider further interactions with ethan and crew a waste of effort. on the other hand, i believe igg has knowingly behaved irresponsibly towards its users and i would like to see their policies and protections legally tested. funding such a venture would take either more cash from supporters or finding someone willing to take on the project with future payment from the collected amount. i am personally unwilling to invest more $ in such a venture, but since i've mentally written off the $ spent, would be willing to offer up a portion (or all) of "my share" on a contingency basis to qualified legal firm interested in pursuing this. being on ongoing business, a judgement against igg would also be more likely to be collected on... the amount sought should be significantly greater than the total $ "owed" to this group... lots of "damages" were incurred here in people falling behind in technology as well as the time, stress and emotions wasted on this "scampaign." thats my 2 cents.

[emubird]

i think suits would likely have to be filed against both igg and rapide3d.

[AnimatronicBear]

If no upgraded 200XL machine is forthcoming, I would like my $1456 back. Thank You!!

[bolsoncerrado]

Unfortunately I don't think anyone will see his money back, nor you UNLESS you can chargeback your CC right now. Like I said before, i've seen chargebacks happen ONE YEAR after the purchase happened. And just for the record, when the campaigns closed, the number of "supporters" was 1254 on the 200 and 364 on the 200XL. It's now reading 1252 on the 200 and 363 on the 200XL so someone must be getting his money back somehow, and I bet its not because Rapide doing refunds, I'm sure of that.

[Widestorm]

Any update Widestorm?

I tried although my issuing company didn't have the same policies as MasterCard, which seemed strange to me. Didn't work.
Apparently I have a contract with the bank and the issuing company which doesn't include the same chargeback options.

So I didn't have a chance.

Oh well.

Quite pissed Indiegogo hasn't taken action whatsoever.

Edit: Now I'm more inclined to join the class action lawsuit option.