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Joao
11-16-2015, 01:48 AM
I've bought this Kossel XL from AliExpress.

Took me a while to assemble the kit and configure.
But everything is working perfectly fine.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/heated-bed-with-linear-guide-LCD-Display-Reprap-Delta-Rostock-balck-or-gold-k800xl-DIY-Kit/32506620241.html

1218

bolsoncerrado
11-16-2015, 09:29 AM
Its looking really good! And looks really "high"!

Please post prints when you have them! And pics of your own machine too ;)

How much were you charged at Customs btw?

Joao
11-16-2015, 09:59 AM
Its looking really good! And looks really "high"!

Please post prints when you have them! And pics of your own machine too ;)

How much were you charged at Customs btw?

It is really high and the maximum print height is almost half the height of the printer.

These delta printers are are a different ballgame, it took me a lot of time to learn how to tune and calibrate it. I didn't have enough time during the weekend to make the first print but it's almost there. The next thing is really getting a sticky bed because the first layer is not adhering to the borosilicate.

I paid to DHL 20 pounds for customs. The printer arrived in 6 days after paid.

bolsoncerrado
11-16-2015, 12:04 PM
Not bad then!

I did see the height! It's impressive. The main difference with deltas is the height and speed so let's see what it can do once you fine tune it :D

Are you going back to the hairspray days I guess :D

How good the components look like?

Joao
11-16-2015, 12:34 PM
After assembled, the overall construction is sturdy, even having the main frame supports being 3D printed. In the videos that they use to advertise, those parts are from injection, but thats not a problem since the ABS they used is strong and it looks like solid prints.

The control board is an Arduino Mega with the Ramps 1.4 and they work like a charm. The connection with Simplify3D is perfect and the Arduino firmware changes are very quick and easy to apply (I've done already a few times to tune it).

I was a bit disappointed with the linear rails. They don't slide as smooth as the rods or wheels versions. I can feel the tiny ball bearings inside moving or stepping around, similar to that tiny bumps you feel when turning a offline stepper motor. Maybe it's a matter of lack of silicon lubrication, it is very greasy though not silicon... At least they don't wobble, there is no play at all.
I haven't tested other linear rails so I can't compare.

There are a lot of improvements worth doing here, but for the total cost paid this is definitely worth it.

bolsoncerrado
11-16-2015, 12:38 PM
Wow! My expectations were on the linear rails precissely, but if they can be easily replaced, may be the whole thing deserves a nice place in a makers room :)

Let's see what speed and performance you can get out of it. "No play" already sounds good enough.

BTW where is the spool placed?

bolsoncerrado
11-16-2015, 04:42 PM
I've checked with the spanish community and the best smart move you should do next is get an "original" RAMPS+Arduino combo and get rid of the chinese clones.

Joao
11-16-2015, 05:15 PM
BTW where is the spool placed?

I haven't decided yet, the extruder is on the top of the frame and they have photos of the spool just next to it on top also.
I might keep it where I used to have that is inside a closed box with all the other filaments and the bottom filled with moisture absorber (kitten litter) :)


I've checked with the spanish community and the best smart move you should do next is get an "original" RAMPS+Arduino combo and get rid of the chinese clones.
These boards are not clones, they are original. At least they are branded as original and even say "Made in Italy".

Maybe you can invite some of your patriots to jump in here and post some useful guides for the delta printers? :)

bolsoncerrado
11-16-2015, 05:34 PM
They were invited long ago, but since the spanish community is very big and "very own" already, and very.... "spanish"... they tend to stay there already lol But if you want me to keep asking questions let me know. Glad to help.

Nice to know the RAMPS+Ardu look like "original" parts ;)

bolsoncerrado
11-16-2015, 05:37 PM
While I was typing you someone just pointed me to forget about 8bit boards and mnove to a 32bit board asap for a delta, and to join the following group:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/deltabot

This board was also recommended:


http://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/3Dpriter-control-board-MKS-SBase-V1-0-32-s-Motherboard-compatible-Smoothieware-open-source-firmware-support/1047297_32384368763.html?storeId=1047297

Unless of course you wanna purchase the original one.

bolsoncerrado
11-25-2015, 10:34 AM
@Joao how's the Kossel evolving? Any good prints yet??

Joao
11-26-2015, 09:41 AM
Hi

Yes, I managed to get all settings right and the prints are now coming out pretty nice.

Not so perfect as I used to get from Rapide, but I believe its a matter of time while I get used to it.

It was a bit of a challenge to get all configurations tuned. A Delta printer has a lot of more tweaks to consider to get it going.
But after that it works fine and I'm happy with it.

The cost is definitely worth it. Total paid with taxes and transport and all 282.

122312241225

bolsoncerrado
11-26-2015, 11:13 AM
As you said definetly worth for the price, hope you get it fine tuned right to the spot!!

Kalle768
04-06-2016, 08:59 PM
have you got the printer tuned ok?

Joao
04-07-2016, 12:19 AM
have you got the printer tuned ok?
Yes, now I have everything aligned perfectly and made a few improvements that made a big difference.
Do you havr similar printer?

Kalle768
04-07-2016, 02:45 AM
yes build it now, some shortcomings in the set. missing some screws. hope to get ready for testing tomorow

Kalle768
04-07-2016, 06:11 AM
Yes, now I have everything aligned perfectly and made a few improvements that made a big difference.
Do you havr similar printer?

You have some good advice about improving the printer?

Kalle768
04-22-2016, 02:16 PM
i have a issue with the printer, its crashing in to print after 3-4 mm and i dont kvow how to fix it(i am a NOOB on this). you have any good idea what it is?. i believe that it dont step up enough. can you help me?

Kalle

Joao
04-22-2016, 02:23 PM
i have a issue with the printer, its crashing in to print after 3-4 mm and i dont kvow how to fix it(i am a NOOB on this). you have any good idea what it is?. i believe that it dont step up enough. can you help me?

Kalle
When you say its crashing, what do you mean?
Does it stop working completely, like power off?
Or does it starts misbehaving, like the head moving crazy all around?
Or something else?
An image is always worth 100 words ;) If you can detail the problem I can try to help you.

Kalle768
04-22-2016, 04:58 PM
it crashes in to printet model after3-4 mm in height

- - - Updated - - -

it crashes in to printet model after3-4 mm in height
you have skype?

When you say its crashing, what do you mean?
Does it stop working completely, like power off?
Or does it starts misbehaving, like the head moving crazy all around?
Or something else?
An image is always worth 100 words ;) If you can detail the problem I can try to help you.

Joao
04-22-2016, 05:00 PM
it crashes in to printet model after3-4 mm in height

- - - Updated - - -

it crashes in to printet model after3-4 mm in height
you have skype?

I don't use skype, sorry.

Kalle768
04-22-2016, 05:10 PM
it goes so far then it crash in til build
1428

- - - Updated - - -

can it be someting with steps pr mm?

AndyCov
09-26-2016, 09:53 PM
That's pretty much the Kit I built earlier this year. Mechanically and electrically great, but I reckon I have config.h file and various settings wrong. Prints start off ok but at random points in a print the head steps up to a new position and resumes printing. Not all prints fail. It'll print a 20mm calibration square beautifully. So frustrating. Nearly given up.
What software you using? Any way I could look at your config?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160926/db697a48338137c6e13c0406d05ef75e.jpg


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Joao
09-26-2016, 10:33 PM
Sorry to hear that Andy.



What software you using? Any way I could look at your config?


I am using the Marlin firmware from the Release Candidate 6. https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/releases
I haven't yet moved to the RC7 because there are too many changes and the new official version of Marlin is going to be released soon.
My configurations are here: https://github.com/nomukaiki/Marlin/tree/configurations/KosselXL

If you'd like to have full control over your printer (regardless of which brand or model), I'd definitely suggest that you understand every detail of it's configuration.
Start by analysing the Configuration.h file, the pins*.h file, and maybe if you are into it the Configuration_adv.h


The behaviour that you explain might be caused by many reasons:
- Firmware with problems (try to use a more recent version and adjust the configurations);
- Power supply not enough;
- Some electrical wiring not well connected;
- Stepper motor's drivers are not fine tuned.

My bet would be on this last one. Check here how do adjust the driver's current: https://youtu.be/89BHS9hfSUk
Be careful because you can easily burn the drivers or the Ramps board by simply shorting the 12V on the Ramps board with the 5V circuit (I've done that myself a couple of times).

Good luck and keep us posted of your progress.

AndyCov
10-09-2016, 07:53 PM
Thanks Joao.
I had a good look through your config.h yesterday- there are just a few differences with hardware types that tell me I would need to go quite deep to make sure I had a working Marlin file. I'm familiar with my config.h and am confident modifying values etc.
An Arduino-savvy friend came round yesterday and we became satisfied that the code or config is not the issue.
Motor volts were set as per build instructions using a multimeter but not as in depth as the video you suggested.
Whilst we've seen some odd print fails that look like software related issues, I'm convinced the bigger problem has been with print settings. When it faults we usually hear a thump. I'm satisfied now the belts aren't jumping teeth. I concluded the nozzle has been catching a print edge on some print moves, causing the steppers to slip steps. I've added a lift on non-print moves and so far, all prints have succeeded. We're using an Sd card but have also printed from Pronterface in the past.
Now we're having problems with slic3r. Never had any good results from Repetier or Cura so far. This is the next stop on the learning curve!


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Joao
10-09-2016, 09:03 PM
Hi Andy.
I'm glad that you did some progress.
If you believe that you will spend many hours with this new hobby, I would definitely suggest to invest on the software Simplyfy3D.
It will save you many of those hours of frustration and confidence that the slicer and printer control is at it's best.
Anyhow, motors jumping or skipping steps are most likely the stepper driver warming too much and loosing power, caused by those tiny annoying voltage adjustments that shouldn't be disregarded.

Keep us updated about your progress and post some pictures of your prints.

Best,
Joao

AndyCov
10-09-2016, 09:58 PM
Hi Joao
I think I spoke too soon anyway. Been having it step out this afternoon so will definitely review motor voltages.
Instructions said set x,y,z at 1.0-1.3v on drive board and extruder at 1.24-1.3v.
Which way should I be heading- 1.0 or 1.3v?


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Joao
10-09-2016, 10:19 PM
The voltage depends on the motors that you have.
You can find clear instructions here: https://www.pololu.com/product/1182

AndyCov
10-09-2016, 10:34 PM
Hi Joao. No need to answer..I'm checking this out properly now. Not sure the instructions I've been given are right!


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AndyCov
10-09-2016, 11:24 PM
The plot thickens! I need to check if I'm running in full step mode.
Motor is xy42sth34-1334a with 1.33A current limit/phase. Board is A4988.
Suggests Vref should be 1.33/2.5= 0.53V. If in full step this could be (1.33/0.7)/2.5= 0.76V- both values a long way from 1.0-1.3V kit instruction if I'm reading the Pololu info correctly.

Now I really would appreciate any input you can offer.
I'll check the set voltages tomorrow and maybe reset.

Original kit instruction looks like..http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161009/25ff4389fdd379195f759b48db44780f.jpg
Looks like it's wrong then.


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Joao
10-11-2016, 09:46 PM
Yes, that is too much. I am also using at 0.5V for movement and 0.6V the extruder (I bought a different motor)
Mine also arrived from factory with extremely high voltages, then come from factory with random settings.

My ramps board also had a defect on the steps jumpers. Whatever I set with the jumpers it was always running at full steps.
Fortunately ramps boards are quite cheap, as also are the big brother versions of the A4988 (and much more efficient).
I bought a bunch of the https://www.pololu.com/product/2133 because I burnt a few just by accident touching with the screwdriver were I shouldn't.
With microsteping activated the motors are much more silent.
My optimal solution is 1/8 towers and 1/2 extruder (this one needs more power to have strength to extrude).

Let me know if you need any assistance on this.

Best,
Joao

AndyCov
10-16-2016, 05:19 PM
That's it then. Reset all Vref's to 0.76v (motion axes, extruder) and it's cured. Motors are running cool (38C), prints are better quality and completing without a problem.
I'll be able to put speeds back up now.
Many thanks for your help. I hope this thread helps someone else.

Now to solve stringing..


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AndyCov
10-26-2016, 08:05 PM
Am back in need of help again..!
All ok at 0.76V but I've had one motion axis stepper drive board fail twice now. Could this be the motor causing the board to fail?
No issues when Vref was higher so why now?
Any input is appreciated.


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Joao
10-27-2016, 09:32 PM
Am back in need of help again..!
All ok at 0.76V but I've had one motion axis stepper drive board fail twice now. Could this be the motor causing the board to fail?
No issues when Vref was higher so why now?
Any input is appreciated.


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I suspect that the driver gets too hot and the chip halts automatically, just like the specs.
A fan and dissipators would probably help and fix, but, I would definitely recommend to upgrade to the DRV8825 model.
Since I installed mine I never had any issues again, and the printer works many times 24/7 non stop at high printing speeds (50 to 80mm/s)

https://www.pololu.com/product/2133
You can find them on eBay for less than 1 each.

AndyCov
10-28-2016, 08:44 AM
It's not just halted unfortunately. Power off overnight and it's still dead when we try next day. Same axis each time.

But it's the innermost board near the end where supplies are connected. I added a 40mm fan yesterday and will see if it helps.
Also read on reprap forums that 5v should be on before 12v. Since we've been printing ok, the laptop has been disconnected and just running off internal power printing from SD card. It's possible then it sees 12v fractionally before 5v so we've started powering from the USB cable with 5v before switching 12v on. It was failing on a power cycle, not during a print.

And I've ordered the DRV8825's as an upgrade anyway. Thanks again.


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AndyCov
11-06-2016, 10:08 AM
So far so good but without experimenting I can't be sure whether it's the fan or the power on/off regime that's working.

I do have the new boards you recommended on standby!


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Joao
03-15-2017, 03:15 PM
These delta printers are are a different ballgame, it took me a lot of time to learn how to tune and calibrate it. I didn't have enough time during the weekend to make the first print but it's almost there. The next thing is really getting a sticky bed because the first layer is not adhering to the borosilicate.

Short answer:Buy LokBuild and all your adherence problems are solved.

Long answer:
I've been through all of that experience and for me it was an enjoyable journey. I imagine it can be painful and very time consuming for others. Anyway the learnings about assembling these Kossel printers are really worth it and is applicable to any other printer.

My Kossel now has a lot of improvements and the only original parts are probably the frame and mechanical parts.
I replaced main board (because I burnt the original, I still used the Ramps1.4+Arduino), added a 5v transformer to add more power to the Arduino+Ramps, replaced the heated-bed to a silicone 240v (only takes 1 min to go from 25C to 100C), a geared motor for the extruder to get enough extrusion strength for higher speeds, the printing head is now E3D and replaced all the plastic supports on the head with aluminium.

The bed is not touching directly the frame but is supported by 3 screws that I can adjust. I bought and used a Bltouch for auto-leveling, but I realised that with the new adjustments and with LokBuild it was useless. So I don't use it anymore.

I just click print and with very high confident it prints perfectly.

I don't even use the heated bed for PLA. This was for me the biggest problem on all the printers I had.
My next upgrade will probably be replacing the Bowden extrusion by something very light that sits on the printer head. I do have some issues with some cheap filaments that leave a lot of stringing and the retraction is already at the maximum.

Good luck with your 1st print !

bolsoncerrado
03-15-2017, 04:31 PM
I fear you replied to a SPAMbot, @Joao :(

Joao
03-15-2017, 05:23 PM
I fear you replied to a SPAMbot, @Joao :(
Really?? It seemed very legit message and question :)
But the bots are taking over humanity anyway, so who knows...

bolsoncerrado
03-15-2017, 08:41 PM
If you notice his "post" is just a generic sentence with common words but the spam now is posted on the signature....

Joao
03-15-2017, 08:49 PM
If you notice his "post" is just a generic sentence with common words but the spam now is posted on the signature....
It doesn't seem to be a generic answer because:
- Kossel XL is in fact a delta printer;
- It is particularly difficult to assemble because it comes completely loose, up to the screw level;
- The bed is by default a borosilicate and not aluminium like regular printers;
- And finally the adhesion is not straightforward, even for borosilicate.

If you follow his link and address of the profile, it is a 3D printing company, that could definitely be trying a delta printer.

This is your forum, but I wouldn't reject a 1st single post from someone just by the fact that he has a signature with a link to his company/service, and wasn't even trying to sell it.

bolsoncerrado
03-15-2017, 09:12 PM
It's common knowledge, and bots are just smartasses now, the "kossel" is indeed related to "Deltas" and he was annouincing a 3D printing service so...

On one other side, making business ads on ANY forum without paying is just considered SPAM.

Joao
03-15-2017, 09:29 PM
It's common knowledge, and bots are just smartasses now, the "kossel" is indeed related to "Deltas" and he was annouincing a 3D printing service so...

On one other side, making business ads on ANY forum without paying is just considered SPAM.

I won't argue with you, you probably messaged the guy before removing the message and you were sure that it was a bot.
Me personally, didn't see any announcement of a 3D printing service, I had to dig in to his profile to see what it was.

Anyway, but now that we are talking about that SPAM by using a URL on a signature to increase their SEO on their site, how do rate these messages?
1939

I felt particularly annoyed but such messages that I had to stop my RSS feed of new messages from the forum.

bolsoncerrado
03-16-2017, 01:13 AM
Yeah, that was a special "case" as we dealt previously, but I did warn them to stop and pay a fee. Silent since then.