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woale
03-02-2016, 05:34 PM
As we may all learn from our mistakes, a separate thread for all our print fails, and where possible the reason of failure ;)

For my first successful fail, my exploded, literally :D
(link (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:179795))
13451346

Made the skull hollow, with 2mm shell, printed without "holes" to let the resin flow out of the skull during print.
No clue why one layer partially didn't stick though. I doubt this has something to do with the "pressure" of the uncured resin inside the skull building up. I'll retry later anyway with a higher z lift between layers.

Anyone else experience with "exploded" prints ?

bolsoncerrado
03-02-2016, 06:05 PM
Nice thread indeed too! but wow aint that a lot of banding? what was the resolution you used here?

Ill post my big failed print as well soon too lol

AngryPanda
03-02-2016, 09:14 PM
I love the failed print thread!!! I have my own to share..
This print I tried last night, and woke up to see my epic fail this morning..
So these show 1: what CW said it would look like (with autogenerated "adaptive" supports), 2: What it ACTUALLY looked like end of print, 3: slice settings used. :confused:

- - - Updated - - -

That pic of the actual Print which I took upside down still in the printer, shows a TON of pigment seperation and failed curing.. I'm presuming by the looks of this that the resin is bad.. I'll toss the batch and start over with a fresh bottle..

The blue model is what it was supposed to look like..lol

bolsoncerrado
03-02-2016, 09:17 PM
Wait! Is that a failed print!??!?!

I dont think so!!!

I'll try to post pics of my actual failed prints and you'll notice a difference!! :( Holy cow!!

bolsoncerrado
03-03-2016, 02:30 PM
So my very first print with the Morpheus was thru the Big Door, not a small Rook nor a small ring no.... but the wonderful Nefertiti (http://www.print3dforum.com/showthread.php/726-The-3D-Nefertiti-Hack)!!

At 50% scale (ie 1:2 scale) to fit the Morpheus, and a temptative 60h print at 0.05 micron (LOL!) due to my inexpertise, 24h later I got this:

http://i.imgur.com/jwlNUjP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/33QBPP0.jpg

Yeah! Right! The heart of Dracula lol The partially printed base of Nefertiti fell into the VAT and kept curing layers sticking to the film until I stopped it... GEez!

As you can see, very long prints tend to leave the resin pigment to separate from the resin :(

bolsoncerrado
03-03-2016, 02:33 PM
Second try was something smaller, much much smaller!

A Claddagh Ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claddagh_ring)! Let's go small! But let's try support as well!

Result?

Yeah Right! FAIL!

http://i.imgur.com/iOQQ0zh.jpg
(Hair put aside for scale comparison purposes ;))



Seems this one ALSO fell from the base and the print went on over and over layer over layer stuck'd on the film up to 100% done :(


THIRD try ends in 20min!

I'll report back in a few!

bolsoncerrado
03-03-2016, 04:27 PM
Well, as the saying goes, Third time lucky!

Set it to print Kylo Ren Lightsaber's (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1239228) side exhaust ports

http://thingiverse-production-new.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/24/c7/74/68/1a/5d723d3a820c19582d3e34b951db27c7_preview_featured. jpg


And finally got an almost successful print!

http://i.imgur.com/a3CvaY2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qqXtt5K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OWzDwOE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pn9QE7S.jpg


Aside from a couple holes, the print lasted aorund 5h and the resin is already showing depigmentation, which makes me think either the resin is already "burned out" of so many tests or the Morpheus cant handle long prints with colored resins....


What do you guys think? lol

AngryPanda
03-03-2016, 11:39 PM
Awesome post @bolsoncerrado, every print gets us one step closer. Lol.
As for the pigment separation, I know the Morpheus handles large prints and Long print times without problems as I've seen it in action. However, I came to the same conclusion about possibly over-recycling the resin. Can't 100% prove it yet but I'm game to test the theory.. I just need more resin now. [emoji13]

AngryPanda
03-03-2016, 11:40 PM
P.s. Nice mask in the background!

sukhvir
03-04-2016, 12:05 AM
Great thread guys and hopefully we can fine tune the settings to get better prints. Attached is my failed print. Is this a result of undercuring? Also, what resin are you using woale? I have MJ G+ Black, but yours seems more pigmented.

13511352135313541355

bolsoncerrado
03-04-2016, 11:09 AM
I think we'll learn a lot from this thread! Way to go!

So sorry about your failed print sukhvir (http://www.print3dforum.com/member.php/969-sukhvir)!

Keep us posted about what do you think the issue was. Apparently it looks like the light coming from the UV source is not well spreaded!?

The pigments might have not been spreaded well either, did you shake vigorously the bottle before putting it on the VAT? did you print at 21ÂșC ambient temperature or higher during the whole print?


-------


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http://i.imgur.com/ss3bi7r.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VRyB1Lt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O9CJrQE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sui4jsA.jpg

So yes! While trying to print Han Solo's Blaster (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:887609)...

http://thingiverse-production-new.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/a5/69/a6/52/04/3-4_scale_han_solo_blaster_mod_preview_featured.jpg

the computer restarted overnight so the neat desktop wallpaper decided to be printed on the Morpheus over and over!!! how cool is that Bill? You owe me a bottle of MJuice you faggg....!!! lol

Well it was not a full failure after all... (printed at 0.075micron)

http://i.imgur.com/a8dO4LB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hqxgynU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uWPItjG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3PglXEK.jpg

...BUT the lesson learned after this is that the base I created was so fragile that I had to break EVERYTHING in order to remove it from the plate, so yeah, full failure in the end LOL

sukhvir
03-04-2016, 11:16 AM
The OWL works team shook the bottle vigorously before putting in the resin @bolsoncerrado. The issue with the print is that the upper layer seems fine, but the bottom layer is bumpy and softer. Print was done at ambient temperature, so I don't think that is the issue.

I have sent details and STL file to OWL team and await their reply. I'll keep you all posted.

bolsoncerrado
03-04-2016, 11:27 AM
You mean the print started before the team left?

sukhvir
03-04-2016, 11:42 AM
This print was done a couple of days ago. The team ran a smaller print test when they were here to calibrate resin etc. The test print I gave them broke into pieces when trying to remove from build plate :(

I also noticed (after they left) that the test print should have actually printed thicker than it actually did (printed about 0.5mm thick - should have been 2mm). Might be some calibration issues but I'll keep testing and await feedback.

bolsoncerrado
03-04-2016, 11:49 AM
If you used the resin left in the VAT by the team then you should have shaked / stirred it a bit between prints.

I've learned the lesson as well. the hard way of course.

I use my window wiper to slowly move the resin back and forth 10 times or so, this makes the pigment reunite again between prints.

The other way is to put the resin back into the bottle and reshake it, or discard it and use a new bottle if you're rich :D

sukhvir
03-04-2016, 01:09 PM
Sounds like a plan. I emptied resin into a container, strained out the rubbish, shook and poured back in (I'm not rich enough to waste resin :))

Starting another print and have also reduced exposure time to 30s to see what effect that has. Thanks @bolsoncerrado

bolsoncerrado
03-04-2016, 06:06 PM
Before you reduce exposure time "at random" be sure your environmental conditions do cure the resin though ;)

And keep us posted :)

sukhvir
03-05-2016, 12:17 AM
Before you reduce exposure time "at random" be sure your environmental conditions do cure the resin though ;)

And keep us posted :)

I decreased it to 35000, however found some layers in between didn't cure properly. Increased it to 45000 and got better results.

I've decided to change resin and have ordered some FunToDo resin (Black and white). I should have it next week so will post a comparison. Seems like a better resin all round.

woale
03-05-2016, 04:03 AM
Is this a result of undercuring? Also, what resin are you using woale? I have MJ G+ Black, but yours seems more pigmented.

I'm not sure this is due to undercuring. It's a large thin flat surface you're printing, maybe something to do with shrinkage? Looks like you tilted along the Y axis, maybe tilt a bit along the X axis as well...
I'm using Fun To Do 'deep black' resin which seems to remain pigmented allot longer (>12h) compared to MJ G+ (<4h).

sukhvir
03-06-2016, 11:55 AM
Thanks woale. I appreciate the feedback. I have ordered some Fun To Do resin and their quality seems far better. Also, I'm going to try rotating on X and Y axis to see how it affects results.

I thought FDM printing was hard, however it's a breeze compared to SLA so far.

sukhvir
03-06-2016, 01:43 PM
I carried out another test print and have attached the results. I tried to change the orientation of the print as suggested, however ALL of my prints seem to be failing in a similar fashion. If the piece is flat and positioned flat on the build plate, it prints 'ok', however breaks when removed and also have varying thickness. If I print a part with a strong base and add supports, the first few layers that are attached to the supports ALL fail, with the final layers printing correctly. Any ideas?

Slice thickness - 0.1mm
Exposure time - 35000ms
Bottom exposure - 50000ms
Bottom layer - 5
1356135713581359

bolsoncerrado
03-07-2016, 09:27 AM
Wow! What a weird behaviour indeed!!!

My last print wasn't either better!!

I'm starting to feel I either have a curing issue or the reuse of MJ+ isn't "supported" at all lol

Check this out :(

http://i.imgur.com/2iBGGfE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gMfqVyH.jpg

The infamous Thingiverse rook came in without the inside "DNA" spiral and full of holes :(

I ordered myself some more "brand new" MJ+ and some FunToDo "SnowWhite" resin to start off "brand new" prints.

It seems clear to me we really need to properly calculate the "close enough" to exact amount we'll need for each print rather than filling the vat and reusing over and over...

Question now is: HOW?!


http://i.imgur.com/MavHMgP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RErRp00.jpg

sukhvir
03-07-2016, 09:50 AM
The MJ SF resin is meant to be better than G+ and TOW said SF does work, though they have only done a couple of prints with it.

I am awaiting FTD resin and hope I have better luck with that resin. It also has half the cure time.

AngryPanda
03-14-2016, 09:19 PM
@sukhvir, Any news on the FTD resin? I'm curious to see how it turns out.

sukhvir
03-15-2016, 12:53 AM
@AngryPanda, I have been testing the FTD resin and the results so far have been very positive. The MJ G+ resin compares very poorly to FTD in ALL areas. Please see my main points below:

- FTD has exposure times of 10-13 seconds. MJ is 35s. You can see how much time you will save, however the maximum slice size with FTD is 0.07mm (rather than 0.1mm)
- FTD resin smells less vile than MJ
- Pigmentation with FTD is FAR superior
- FTD is slightly more flexible, meaning your prints don't break when removing from the build plate
- Colours can be mixed with the Snowhite resin to make any colour you wish
- Costs are similar between resins
- There is less shrinkage with FTD (0.5% vs 3%)

Overall, results are positive and I'll be comparing prints to see the resins compare and keep you posted.

1366

bolsoncerrado
03-15-2016, 11:23 AM
I do have my unopened bottles of FTD resin here too.... Im awaiting to figure out an easy way to calculate the volume needed for each print so I dont waste resin like I did with the test MJ+ and seems nanoDLP does the job perfectly fine.

woale should update us on the motors moving soon! :D


My guess is MJ+ was formulated with Form1 printers in mind, with very low capacity VATs in mind so the uncured resins don't corrupt that easily and this has translated into not so good results in the Morpheus, however I wonder how did TOW managed to print the big Reims cathedral with MJ+.... their print shows very little depigmentation only in the very last layers of it...

AngryPanda
03-24-2016, 01:07 PM
1383138413851386Sooo.. another failed print.. but this One is weird.. It started off great.. failed in the middle.. then finished great?... (thus rendering the print a fail..)

you can see the "holes" and uncured portions randomly set in the middle areas.. then it decided to finish the print correctly..

bolsoncerrado
03-24-2016, 01:32 PM
Uneven room temperatures!?

WTF!!!

I wonder what will TOW have to say about this!


Was it MJ+!?


Thanks for sharing! Definetly a nice compendium of troubleshooting ways!

AngryPanda
03-24-2016, 09:35 PM
@bosoncerrado, I'm not sure if it would be room temp issues.. I had a heater running in the room to keep it steady, but you never know. I sent the images, STL, and settings to TOW.. they are analyzing form me..
And yes, it was MJ+ (a brand new 1 liter bottle fresh from MJ)..


In the mean time, for my first fail earlier, they told me to try using B9Creator software to build supports and re-try.. THAT DIDNT GO WELL.. I'll post that fail next..lol

bolsoncerrado
03-25-2016, 11:41 AM
Wow, this is getting really dishearting! At least someone is updating the "Successful prints" thread for us lol

dada print
03-25-2016, 12:42 PM
Hi All

Well I have been trying the MJ red and so far only the Rooks came out fully printed but with pigment separation. Now this is my real print the whale shark turns out full of failed bits and holes. Details is quite fine though. Compared with the FDM print at the same day. This particular resin is not so good for big prints me thinks. One thing I did may also contributed to the failure. I made the wall 1 mm so when I shrunk it the walls too thin. There were many supports under the model and these funny enough all cured properly. I am going to try some FTD resin next.

This one goes in the hall of failed prints......Cheers 1387

bolsoncerrado
03-25-2016, 04:54 PM
Holy crap!

I start to think too many of us having issues with MJ resin and TOW managed to print the Reims cathedral... how???

bolsoncerrado
04-06-2016, 02:02 PM
My failed prints dont wanna get uploaded....simply because they wont stick anymore to the plate :(

Holy crap! :(

dada print
04-06-2016, 03:41 PM
Hey. Tried with FTD industrial grade black pigmented resin. The shark failed. One piece of another design was okay but distorted. I think my curing time is too long. 50s for first 5 layers and 30s after. Might speed it up. There was the constant peeling "slap" of the membrane in the beginning. I had to bluetax (plasticine like semi-sticky gum) down the tray to stop it lifting.
I have a theory. The size of the built plate is too large and that flexing of the membrane is un-avoidable. Hence some distortion to one piece. One side looked slightly "stretched". Not by much. Anyway I will have a few more try. I am getting worried that I could never print large pieces. There is zero instruction or guidance except may be discussion in this forum.

This is not what I expected. This is harder to get right than a DIY top down DLP printer built by my friend. I had to use that to do ones and twos. I bought this printer so I could do tens and large prints. Not happening at the moment. Why TOW is silent on this matter? I really want to achieve prints successfully like in their videos.

bolsoncerrado
04-06-2016, 05:07 PM
30s is too much for FTD. Use 50s only for the 5 layers then 10 to 15s at max for the rest of the layers. To avoid the "slap" of the membrane (suck up) by the metal plate, (due to the viscosity of the resin vs the MJ one) I use full bottles of 1L put on the black VAT margin so it adds weight to the VAT and it does not move during the first 10-20 layers. Just be sure the bottles wont touch the metal plate. This is indeed a "design failure" of the MarkIV. I'm sure there's a more elegant solution someone else in this forum has thougt of already.


BTW anyone else thinks we should add washers between the screws and the plate bar???

AngryPanda
04-06-2016, 09:00 PM
I noticed the same pull/slap when I had a very full resin tank. At one point I adjusted the z-lift speed and timing a little and it actually helped. (Made it lift slower, which resulted in a longer print time, but it curtailed the pulling.)

I suggest to just keep blasting all the info we can over to SJ and team so they know the struggles!

AngryPanda
04-06-2016, 09:01 PM
@bolsoncerrado Which screws and plate bar are you talking about? I'd be happy to try it! Lol.

acnow
04-06-2016, 10:00 PM
Hi Guys: I realized that the mesh support of Creation Workshop was not the best (I also did some research and people never use Creation Workshop for that). Most of the time they recommend Meshmixer for the mesh support (http://www.meshmixer.com/download.html) which is a free software. I wonder if you guys have used it and what are the settings that work for you? I hope you love the meshmixer as I do :) Here are a few tutorials that could help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFTyTV3wwsE

sukhvir
04-06-2016, 10:04 PM
Hi acnow. I have used Meshmixer and although good, needs a lot of tweaking. One of the things I would stress is to make sure the support is a good distance away from the print (MM only allows 0.5mm max) otherwise it can fuse to your print. I us MM first, then add a few further supports using CW.

bolsoncerrado
04-07-2016, 03:09 PM
@angrypanda I mean the big black plastic screws we use to fix the Z bar to the moving axis.... my bar is already showing some "damage" and I guess some washers could help relieve the "pressure"....

AngryPanda
04-07-2016, 03:13 PM
Got it! That makes sense!

Riyad Brown
09-11-2019, 12:52 PM
Helpful thread!

gastonkilby
01-28-2022, 09:39 PM
I'll post my big bad print soon, too