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  1. #91
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    Definitely wasn't thinking of sharing a single supply - more like dedicating separate supply to the heater. They cost less than $20.

    Peeling the white stuff from the base build plate might not be wise. I suspect there was a serious 'flattening' process when they made the plate. I suspect you will need to flatten the plate again using a granite stone with sandpaper. Can be done but you will want to check flatness of the backside. I know they are not very flat but what is tolerable?

    Can we design the traces so that the magnets are 'reverse' heated? Say - leave sufficient annular clearance around the magnets so the aluminum around the magnets are somewhat cooler than the remainder of the plate. Let the heat come from the surface, so to speak.

    What temperature are we aiming for? And at what temperature do the plastic caps start to deform? Should it all be metal on metal; magnet directly to the plate, caps removed? The small pillars that hold the current magnets are a great heat-break to the carriage.

    How about glass with magnets? Would that make a better surface, w/ or w/o LokBuild? I still have a great 170mm B-glass plate that is absolutely dead flat. That might be a good place to start with know flatness. This also provides [and robs] an 1/8" for the magnets and gives a little breathing room for the carriage. Worth considering.

    I'll look into the thermistor. I have no clue as to software options so I need guidance there. I just need to be able to see it to solder it.

    5 amps isn't hard to deal with. I'm very tempted to just bolt a lug on but no. It requires very robust strain reliefs on the wires. 16awg silicone wire should suffice for lead-wires. A pigtail connector isn't out of the realm of possibility either. How about a 5.5x2.1 setup for quick disconnect? Very DIY compatible.

    Adhesion is the only way I can see keeping the PCB close to the substrate being heated.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Where did you want the heat to be sensed? Yes, they make good quality thermistors that are surface mount. an 0805 package can be soldered with relative ease. Just need to know what I am looking for as value goes.

    Considering the price of the PCBs are cheap and most of the cost is shipping, make a 'heat-shield' board. All copper to reflect heat back up and avoid heating the carriage components. These simple techniques are used on cars very day. A simple radiation shield is highly effective.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDee View Post
    Definitely wasn't thinking of sharing a single supply - more like dedicating separate supply to the heater. They cost less than $20.

    Peeling the white stuff from the base build plate might not be wise. I suspect there was a serious 'flattening' process when they made the plate. I suspect you will need to flatten the plate again using a granite stone with sandpaper. Can be done but you will want to check flatness of the backside. I know they are not very flat but what is tolerable?

    Can we design the traces so that the magnets are 'reverse' heated? Say - leave sufficient annular clearance around the magnets so the aluminum around the magnets are somewhat cooler than the remainder of the plate. Let the heat come from the surface, so to speak.

    What temperature are we aiming for? And at what temperature do the plastic caps start to deform? Should it all be metal on metal; magnet directly to the plate, caps removed? The small pillars that hold the current magnets are a great heat-break to the carriage.

    How about glass with magnets? Would that make a better surface, w/ or w/o LokBuild? I still have a great 170mm B-glass plate that is absolutely dead flat. That might be a good place to start with know flatness. This also provides [and robs] an 1/8" for the magnets and gives a little breathing room for the carriage. Worth considering.

    I'll look into the thermistor. I have no clue as to software options so I need guidance there. I just need to be able to see it to solder it.

    5 amps isn't hard to deal with. I'm very tempted to just bolt a lug on but no. It requires very robust strain reliefs on the wires. 16awg silicone wire should suffice for lead-wires. A pigtail connector isn't out of the realm of possibility either. How about a 5.5x2.1 setup for quick disconnect? Very DIY compatible.

    Adhesion is the only way I can see keeping the PCB close to the substrate being heated.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Where did you want the heat to be sensed? Yes, they make good quality thermistors that are surface mount. an 0805 package can be soldered with relative ease. Just need to know what I am looking for as value goes.

    Considering the price of the PCBs are cheap and most of the cost is shipping, make a 'heat-shield' board. All copper to reflect heat back up and avoid heating the carriage components. These simple techniques are used on cars very day. A simple radiation shield is highly effective.
    Well, the white stuff is removed few years ago, can't do much about it I'm using 170mm b-glass now and will use it with the stock table too, that will solve the flatness issues. Regarding the plastic caps, I think they will hold just well, I'm aiming for the 110 C temperature of the heated bed, the way I use it now.

    Regarding the thermistors, here what's available in Marlin:

    Code:
    //===========================================================================
    //============================= Thermal Settings ============================
    //===========================================================================
    // @section temperature
    
    /**
     * --NORMAL IS 4.7kohm PULLUP!-- 1kohm pullup can be used on hotend sensor, using correct resistor and table
     *
     * Temperature sensors available:
     *
     *    -5 : PT100 / PT1000 with MAX31865 (only for sensors 0-1)
     *    -3 : thermocouple with MAX31855 (only for sensors 0-1)
     *    -2 : thermocouple with MAX6675 (only for sensors 0-1)
     *    -4 : thermocouple with AD8495
     *    -1 : thermocouple with AD595
     *     0 : not used
     *     1 : 100k thermistor - best choice for EPCOS 100k (4.7k pullup)
     *   331 : (3.3V scaled thermistor 1 table for MEGA)
     *   332 : (3.3V scaled thermistor 1 table for DUE)
     *     2 : 200k thermistor - ATC Semitec 204GT-2 (4.7k pullup)
     *   202 : 200k thermistor - Copymaster 3D
     *     3 : Mendel-parts thermistor (4.7k pullup)
     *     4 : 10k thermistor !! do not use it for a hotend. It gives bad resolution at high temp. !!
     *     5 : 100K thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2/104NT-4-R025H42G (Used in ParCan, J-Head, and E3D) (4.7k pullup)
     *   501 : 100K Zonestar (Tronxy X3A) Thermistor
     *   502 : 100K Zonestar Thermistor used by hot bed in Zonestar Průa P802M
     *   512 : 100k RPW-Ultra hotend thermistor (4.7k pullup)
     *     6 : 100k EPCOS - Not as accurate as table 1 (created using a fluke thermocouple) (4.7k pullup)
     *     7 : 100k Honeywell thermistor 135-104LAG-J01 (4.7k pullup)
     *    71 : 100k Honeywell thermistor 135-104LAF-J01 (4.7k pullup)
     *     8 : 100k 0603 SMD Vishay NTCS0603E3104FXT (4.7k pullup)
     *     9 : 100k GE Sensing AL03006-58.2K-97-G1 (4.7k pullup)
     *    10 : 100k RS thermistor 198-961 (4.7k pullup)
     *    11 : 100k beta 3950 1% thermistor (Used in Keenovo AC silicone mats and most Wanhao i3 machines) (4.7k pullup)
     *    12 : 100k 0603 SMD Vishay NTCS0603E3104FXT (4.7k pullup) (calibrated for Makibox hot bed)
     *    13 : 100k Hisens 3950  1% up to 300C for hotend "Simple ONE " & "Hotend "All In ONE"
     *    15 : 100k thermistor calibration for JGAurora A5 hotend
     *    18 : ATC Semitec 204GT-2 (4.7k pullup) Dagoma.Fr - MKS_Base_DKU001327
     *    20 : Pt100 with circuit in the Ultimainboard V2.x with 5v excitation (AVR)
     *    21 : Pt100 with circuit in the Ultimainboard V2.x with 3.3v excitation (STM32 \ LPC176x....)
     *    22 : 100k (hotend) with 4.7k pullup to 3.3V and 220R to analog input (as in GTM32 Pro vB)
     *    23 : 100k (bed) with 4.7k pullup to 3.3v and 220R to analog input (as in GTM32 Pro vB)
     *    30 : Kis3d Silicone heating mat 200W/300W with 6mm precision cast plate (EN AW 5083) NTC100K / B3950 (4.7k pullup)
     *   201 : Pt100 with circuit in Overlord, similar to Ultimainboard V2.x
     *    60 : 100k Maker's Tool Works Kapton Bed Thermistor beta=3950
     *    61 : 100k Formbot / Vivedino 3950 350C thermistor 4.7k pullup
     *    66 : 4.7M High Temperature thermistor from Dyze Design
     *    67 : 450C thermistor from SliceEngineering
     *    70 : the 100K thermistor found in the bq Hephestos 2
     *    75 : 100k Generic Silicon Heat Pad with NTC 100K MGB18-104F39050L32 thermistor
     *    99 : 100k thermistor with a 10K pull-up resistor (found on some Wanhao i3 machines)
     *
     *       1k ohm pullup tables - This is atypical, and requires changing out the 4.7k pullup for 1k.
     *                              (but gives greater accuracy and more stable PID)
     *    51 : 100k thermistor - EPCOS (1k pullup)
     *    52 : 200k thermistor - ATC Semitec 204GT-2 (1k pullup)
     *    55 : 100k thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan & J-Head) (1k pullup)
     *
     *  1047 : Pt1000 with 4k7 pullup (E3D)
     *  1010 : Pt1000 with 1k pullup (non standard)
     *   147 : Pt100 with 4k7 pullup
     *   110 : Pt100 with 1k pullup (non standard)
     *
     *  1000 : Custom - Specify parameters in Configuration_adv.h
     *
     *         Use these for Testing or Development purposes. NEVER for production machine.
     *   998 : Dummy Table that ALWAYS reads 25C or the temperature defined below.
     *   999 : Dummy Table that ALWAYS reads 100C or the temperature defined below.
     */
    

  4. #93
    Administrator bolsoncerrado's Avatar
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    Im wondering what is Jo Prusa using on their heated beds, they use magnets everywhere and their beds easily reach 100C in no time, all out from a single power supply.

    EDIT: I guess this explains it...


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  6. #94
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    Small update:

    No more mechanical endstops, sensorless homing and stealth chop are working.
    Printer is much quieter now, in fact, the fans are much louder than steppers
    And, the most important for me on this stage, the TFT extender is here, and it's working!

    Current issues:

    Optical (IR) sensor, automatic bed leveling. I'm using UBL from Marlin, the results are far from being stable, specially when printing at the edges of the print bed.
    Hoping to sort it soon.

    Pictures:

    139997119_883163192450346_6263178628586279644_n.jpg139595031_447417249600491_5629380250902923757_n.jpg140039149_234228954855840_5264996000462381091_n.jpg

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  8. #95
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    Optical Sensor on an Glass surface its a Bad Idea... Put some sort of
    Printfilm surface on original bed (lokbuild, or Chinese Copy of IT)... With Glass would i say capacitive Sensor or bltouch...

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Thats mks24 If i See that right... Nice solution with Extension...
    Ive used bigtreetech tft24 as MKS was Not available at the time, and hast the Option to use as raprap graphic Display too (i dont Like the Display fw controlling Marlin fw)

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  10. #96
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    According to the developer of the sensor, it is using the modulated IR light, which is ok with glass surfaces. The problem comes more from a shiny aluminum bed beneath the glass. I just have tried putting a white sheet of paper below the glass and results became much more consistent.
    Also considering trying the print surface films too. According to some discussions on forums, light colored ones are preferable over the dark ones.
    Will do more tests once I have it. I just need to flatten the original print table, as it is definitely far from being flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor81 View Post
    Thats mks24 If i See that right... Nice solution with Extension...
    Ive used bigtreetech tft24 as MKS was Not available at the time, and hast the Option to use as raprap graphic Display too (i dont Like the Display fw controlling Marlin fw)
    Actually I prefer BTT TFT24 board over the MKS, better software, English translation and overall quality is much better. It uses the same type TFT, that can be extended the same way. Still expecting the board to arrive within few days from now.

    So far I was using S3D for slicing, today I tried Prusa Slicer and was so much surprised with results, much smoother printing flow and speeds.
    Last edited by Kiza; 01-19-2021 at 12:25 PM.

  11. #97
    Administrator bolsoncerrado's Avatar
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    Looks like a good old Reverse-Bowden Twin-Coupler 16V-TurboInjection TDI Prusa-clone Cube-dition 3D Printer!

    (now spell it reverse side with the mouth full of sushi rice!)

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  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolsoncerrado View Post
    Looks like a good old Reverse-Bowden Twin-Coupler 16V-TurboInjection TDI Prusa-clone Cube-dition 3D Printer!

    (now spell it reverse side with the mouth full of sushi rice!)
    Hahah, nice one! That's gonna be the project name!

 

 

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