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  1. #11
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    Any new progress sir ??
    Im new here and need to change my hot ends because sometimes i got Error 13

    Quote Originally Posted by sa6buq View Post
    OK, so another update. The Honeywell thermocouples 135-204QBD-J01 finally arrived after all the non-working days over the 2019 Christmas holidays and New Year. I mounted one as shown in the previous post. I heated the hot end using a separate 24V power supply. I measured the resistance at 10 degree increments as the temperature rose. I measured the hot end temperature by inserting a thermocouple probe into the slot at the heater element. The thermocouple works with my digital Meterman 38XR multi-meter and it measures quite accurately (within 1 or 2 degrees).

    The results were plotted and compared to a few other previous measurements:

    1. Original Cube Pro Trio hot end’s thermistor which measures 207kohm at 25C. Here I had to mount the thermocouple on the tip of the original hot end and added some heat sink paste that works up to 300C.
    2. A measurement in a ExcelFu hot end of the 100k thermistors that came with the delivery from China.
    3. A theoretical calc of wiring two ExcelFu thermistors in parallel.
    4. A measured curve of the 2 x 100k in series.
    5. A measured curve of the new Honeywell 135-204QBD-J01 thermocouples.

    The measurement setup were all the same, except for the original (1) above. Thermistors are non-linear and to compare them I also made plots of 1/T vs. Log (R). The graphs are as follows:

    -Top left: Measures values of R (kOhm) vs. Temp (C)
    -Top right: Zoomed in R vs. T from T=150 to 260C (X-axis scale)
    -Bottom left: 1/T vs. Log (R) of the measured values
    -Bottom right: A zoomed view of 1/T vs Log (R) T=150 to 260C (X-axis)

    Observations:
    The 2 x 100k in series did not match taking the 100k measurements and just multiplying them with 2. One cannot wire highly non-linear devices in series and expect linear change in joint response.
    The response of the ExcelFu 100k response is almost the same as the original, especially in the operating area 150 to 250C. The Cube Pro Trio printed with the 2 x 100k in series as well as a single 100k thermistors, but at a much higher temp around 260C. The PID curve of these mods obviously does not match that which is in the firmware 2.02.

    So what next? Decided to dissect an original hot end of which the heat break broke off. The original hotend has an aluminium housing which includes a threaded part that screws into the heatsink. So if that breaks, the hot end is destroyed. The plan is to remove the original thermistors and mount it on the E3D V6 hot end.

    Any other advice on replacement thermistors for use with the CubePro Trio will be appreciated.

    Attachment 3518

  2. #12
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    I suspect the Cube3 and CubePro use the same thermister. The 100K ohm units are what the DIY industry settled for. 3D systems made their choice much earlier (whoever the early developer was) and they didn't win the standards war. I know Todd has a dead printer. I wonder if we could bother him to carefully carve out one of the thermisters from the potting and get a reference from it. Is that a possibility to nail this down?

    What is going on with the graph in the upper right? It says the data is the same for 100K and 200K (?).

    I also remember something in the back of my mind that a thermister needs two data points to determine the curve. Could 2 unique 200K thermisters have completely different curves?
    Last edited by TommyDee; 01-21-2020 at 04:51 AM.

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  4. #13
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    And if all this fail just because the thermister, ? what is the best scene ?? Change the main Board for a Open Source one ?? Sorry the off topic

  5. #14
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    Short of correcting the curves in firmware, yes. Not off topic at all. This appears to have plagued many.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDee View Post
    Short of correcting the curves in firmware, yes. Not off topic at all. This appears to have plagued many.
    Or we can try to compensate the temperature over Slicer using S3d. Give more or less temp... going to explore a little... if everything fails Marlin will be

  7. #16
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    I might suggest that the thermisters are also part of the housekeeping protocol. Those features are not accessible in any form that I am aware of. This will be hard-coded in firmware. Canned routines like purge may try to push out filament and not be hot enough. This is something 3DS has dialed in over 3 or more platforms. They were loath to change what was already established in the Cubify line.

    And they certainly are not forthcoming on the maker or part number of the thermister they choose. If anything, go back to something like Axiom (sp.?) ...the orginal implementation. Maybe in those archives something may come forth. If they are marked, a good change we could salvage one on a Cube3. In the CubePro, they are buried in the ceramic epoxy.

  8. #17
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    I see.
    I got too hot ends, because i have a CubePro Duo. one of them sometimes works, sometimes not. when they really gone i will tear it apart

  9. #18
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    What kind of error are you getting when it fails?

  10. #19
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    T11 or T13

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDee View Post
    What kind of error are you getting when it fails?
    - - - - - - - - - -

    fU.... Brock the Nooze... BAH... lol.

    Going to teared apart...
    Probably going to put the ED3 Nozzle and test..

  11. #20
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    Oh yea, those are nasty. We did have one report that the failure is in the chip the hot end is plugged into. That daughter board the chip resides on is probably getting too hot for its own good.

 

 

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