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  1. #1
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    E3D Hotend on cubePRO?

    Hey all,

    I have 3 cubePROs that were donated to the maker space I run. They seem to be great machines aside from the proprietary nonsense. I have been reading some build dairy from people who have converted these machines to run on SKR boards and the like. My library director isn't ready to do that just yet. So in the mean time I need to come up with a maintenance and repair strategy for when these things break down. The biggest issue that I am currently seeing is the printjets. If they fail and need replacements. I will likely have to mothball that printer. We have a small stock of e3D clones for our other printers. So what I would like to do is figure out a way to mount a e3D hotend on the existing X Carriage. Has anyone here done that before or have any ideas, thoughts, or concerns?

    Thanks all

  2. #2
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    I am repairing a CubePro Trio for our local school here in Sweden. https://www.theenglishschool.se/

    The school paid 63kSEK =6 300Euro for the printer 4 years ago. As you know 3D systems just dumped the support. What a shame.

    Anyhow, I have been fitting E3D V6 hot ends. I first turned down the top part of a new E3D V6 hot end to have a 10mm diameter using the lathe in my garage. Then also the Bowden screw/connector, but later decided to replace that with a short brass section after I received a 1/8 BSP tap in the post. See attached pics.

    You will notice the total length from the nozzle tip to the flange that goes into the carriage is 59.5mm's instead of the original 60mm. This is to allow for levelling of a multi-hot end setup as the Cube Pro Trio has three hot ends. I will still see if I will fit all three or only two.

    So all is fine mechanically. Some other modificatiions:

    I fitted 24V 40W heaters (the heaters that can with the ED3 V6 were 12V) I ordered 24V 40W heaters on e-bay. You can use the 12V heaters but you will HAVE to change the power supply. (I did not want to dig into that)

    The next problem I have are the thermistors that are mounted right at the hot end. In the original ones they used a 200k (some say 220k) thermistor. The ones that came with the E3D V6 hotends were 100k thermistors. So I ordered new ones from Mouser: https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/...rrencycode=EUR and are waiting for them to arrive.

    I searched and read a lot and cannot figure out how or where to change the Cube Pro Trio firware to use 100k thermistors instead. Maybe someone can direct us that.

    So no testing yet, but I am am determined to get it working.

    I attach some hand sketches of the modifications.

    E3D V6 for CubePro Trio 1.jpgIMG_2657.jpg
    Last edited by sa6buq; 01-20-2020 at 09:16 PM.

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  4. #3
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    Nice work sa6bug! Welcome to the forum.

  5. #4
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    Thanks TD, I noticed that you have also done great work over many years. Some help please:

    I searched and read a lot and cannot figure out how or where to change the Cube Pro Trio firware to use 100k thermistors instead. Maybe someone can direct me to that.

    mvh SA6BUQ (my ham radio callsign, in case you wondered why the strange username)

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  7. #5
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    Sorry for missing the Q. I am not sure changing firmware is an easy thing. I have looked through configuration files. There is precious little available to affect the hardware layer. Most of the firmware hacking prowess was displayed in the OpenBuilds forum. But that doesn't mean there isn't talent here that might could look into how to affect the code.

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  9. #6
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    OK, here is a short update. I mounted and wired two 100k thermistors in series, but the Cube Pro complained about a temperature error (T14) while heating up. It once started printing but then stopped showing Error T14. Obviously the resistance vs temp curve did not match the firmware. I searched everywhere and could not find a way to load a new "PID" table into the firmware of the v2.02 Cub Pro Firmware. It seems as if the Cube Pro Trio FW is still proprietary.

    Anyhow, I am waiting for delivery of some Honeywell 230k thermistors from Mouser 135-204QBD-J01.&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/honeywell/135-234qbf-j01/?qs=F1jq4PciTHu3EljiHWPvBg==&amp;countrycode=DE&am p;currencycode=EUR">https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/honeywell/135-234qbf-j01/?qs=F1jq4PciTHu3EljiHWPvBg==&amp;countrycode=DE&am p;currencycode=EUR</a>&nbsp;

    They cost 1.57Euro each. Hopefully these will work. They are 230kOhm at 25C and the original hot ends also measure between 230k and 250kOhm at room temp. The Honeywell thermistors comes in a radial "diode like" package (DO-35) which does not fit really well into the holes of the hotends which assumes 100k axial thermistors. So a modification to mount them as close to the nozzle as possible using a solder lug is described in the attached sketch. This sketch does not show a modified E3D V6 as described in the images above in this thread, but rather one bought from ExcelFu on Amazon.

    So just to be clear, I am trying two modified hot end versions. One modified original with the ExcelFu (as in the image below) and another modified E3D V6 with the mounting adaptor as in the image above. The thermistor mounts are similar for both and uses a bent solder lug to clamp it to the hotend. So more to come when I get the thermistors...
    Last edited by sa6buq; 01-20-2020 at 09:19 PM.

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  11. #7
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    You are not the first to notice the thermister oddity. Just a choice they made long ago. Mainstream just went elsewhere.

    Looking forward to your findings on matching up 3rd party sensors.
    Last edited by TommyDee; 01-12-2020 at 08:26 AM.

  12. #8
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    Thanks for the info TD, I forgot to attach the image:

    Hotend2.jpg

    Note I still need to solder the thermistor wires and insulate them with heatshrink tubing.

    Hotend3.jpg
    Last edited by sa6buq; 01-12-2020 at 05:53 PM.

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  14. #9
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    Nice solution on the thermister mount!

  15. #10
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    OK, so another update. The Honeywell thermocouples 135-204QBD-J01 finally arrived after all the non-working days over the 2019 Christmas holidays and New Year. I mounted one as shown in the previous post. I heated the hot end using a separate 24V power supply. I measured the resistance at 10 degree increments as the temperature rose. I measured the hot end temperature by inserting a thermocouple probe into the slot at the heater element. The thermocouple works with my digital Meterman 38XR multi-meter and it measures quite accurately (within 1 or 2 degrees).

    The results were plotted and compared to a few other previous measurements:

    1. Original Cube Pro Trio hot end’s thermistor which measures 207kohm at 25C. Here I had to mount the thermocouple on the tip of the original hot end and added some heat sink paste that works up to 300C.
    2. A measurement in a ExcelFu hot end of the 100k thermistors that came with the delivery from China.
    3. A theoretical calc of wiring two ExcelFu thermistors in parallel.
    4. A measured curve of the 2 x 100k in series.
    5. A measured curve of the new Honeywell 135-204QBD-J01 thermocouples.

    The measurement setup were all the same, except for the original (1) above. Thermistors are non-linear and to compare them I also made plots of 1/T vs. Log (R). The graphs are as follows:

    -Top left: Measures values of R (kOhm) vs. Temp (C)
    -Top right: Zoomed in R vs. T from T=150 to 260C (X-axis scale)
    -Bottom left: 1/T vs. Log (R) of the measured values
    -Bottom right: A zoomed view of 1/T vs Log (R) T=150 to 260C (X-axis)

    Observations:
    The 2 x 100k in series did not match taking the 100k measurements and just multiplying them with 2. One cannot wire highly non-linear devices in series and expect linear change in joint response.
    The response of the ExcelFu 100k response is almost the same as the original, especially in the operating area 150 to 250C. The Cube Pro Trio printed with the 2 x 100k in series as well as a single 100k thermistors, but at a much higher temp around 260C. The PID curve of these mods obviously does not match that which is in the firmware 2.02.

    So what next? Decided to dissect an original hot end of which the heat break broke off. The original hotend has an aluminium housing which includes a threaded part that screws into the heatsink. So if that breaks, the hot end is destroyed. The plan is to remove the original thermistors and mount it on the E3D V6 hot end.

    Any other advice on replacement thermistors for use with the CubePro Trio will be appreciated.

    200118 Thermistor plots.JPG

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