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  1. #71
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    Cal (auto or manual) sets the zero point, then every layer is indexed from that same zero point.
    0.02mm seems reasonable, even if the mylar is also 0.02, the RMS is 0.028.
    Tim

  2. #72
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    I know the manual gap setting and the CAL1 value are related.

    If your case is correct, and I am not saying it isn't, then the CAL1 setting and the manual gap setting needs to be reconciled.
    Where is this done?

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDee View Post
    I know the manual gap setting and the CAL1 value are related.

    Where is this done?
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDee View Post
    I know the manual gap setting and the CAL1 value are related.

    Where is this done?
    That's what I have been saying all along. Look at my previous post of the manual. That was a complete capture from a PDF file of the 3D Systems Manual which details this step x step.

    Power up go to CALIBRATE -> Auto Cal (Left side), raise the build plate up and set 11mm gap gauge to set it so the gauge moves freely without exceeding the sticker (go-No go). Make note of the number. In my case it was 2.66.

    At this point you have two options. Touch just to the left of the Cal 2 and let the Firmware calculate the gap which is generally .03-.04.
    Or, raise the build plate to 2.73 in my example which gives us a net effect of setting the gap to .03-.04 MANUALLY. Original gap .11 minus .07 = .04. or there abouts.

    This sets the zero point. The setting remains as long as the printer is plugged in. I check the gap this way before every print just in case.

    Nice close up pictures TD. They point out exactly what I was saying about the lines not touching which is an indication the gap is too large. "PERSONAL PREFERENCE"

    BTW, nice close-ups. Bet it wasn't an Iphone. I'll post pics of what I mean. "MY OPINION"

    G70
    Last edited by JackMeoff; 04-11-2018 at 11:44 PM.

  4. #74
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    Are you butting in JO! I thought I was having this conversation with Tim.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDee View Post
    Are you butting in JO! I thought I was having this conversation with Tim.
    No. I'm contributing to the thread. Again, you just don't quite get it. You have to precede the message with "@user" for others to know it is semi-private.
    Rather than assuming others can read your mind. No matter how narrow it might be.
    Bo are you going to jump in here and suggest your boy be civil?
    G70

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackMeoff View Post
    No. I'm contributing to the thread. Again, you just don't quite get it. You have to precede the message with "@user" for others to know it is semi-private.
    Rather than assuming others can read your mind. No matter how narrow it might be.
    Bo are you going to jump in here and suggest your boy be civil?
    G70
    FUCK OFF JACK... THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID NOT TWO DAYS AGO AND I AM SIMPLY MIMICING YOUR ARROGANCE!

    You want to control this gap issue since the day I met you and I am telling you that you are overlooking one very simple aspect... easily proven... in relation to the Python effort that Tim is working on and you are simply leeching off of.

    IF YOU SIMPLY FUCKING TOOK THE GOD DAMN TIME TO NOTICE, I -CAN- FUCKIN' PROVE IT!

    Sorry Bo... I keep forgetting JO is on a rampage to make sure his agenda is met in the SW development.
    He cannot let me complete a single thought or continuous flow of a couple of posts.

    I won't bother to delete the words under my breath because they'd show up again in quotes anyway.




    Last edited by TommyDee; 04-12-2018 at 10:06 AM.

  7. #77
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    @TD this ain't helping either....

    @Jack "my boy" comments are unnnecesary too.


    If you can't keep it civil I'll be forced to shut down threads and/or profiles....for the first time in this forum! So don't get it started.

  8. Thanks JohnTee thanked for this post
  9. #78
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    I usually don't respond at all to these sort of things and only offer my facts, judgement, experience and help when I can.

    First of all I hope this is the the last instance of vulgarity on the board. If I have to hide my screen when one of my kids comes over to ask me a question things have definitely gone too far. If you look at the above responses yes things were getting heated, and loyalties were suggested, but I only saw one intolerable infraction. I will not continue to participate in this forum if there is a single future instance.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ok, now back to the discussion

    In general my judgement about standardizing cal is based 2 things
    1) we need to have consistency across users that want to contribute and help develop a library of material configurations
    2) z-gap autocal and manual cal if done correctly should render the same result

    The final judge of whether the cal was done right is the machine. Make it tell you what you need to know. Simply tell the machine to go to a Z which equals the measured gauge thickness and verify if it's snug. So if your gap gauge is 0.125mm, then first time Z up to 0.125 and it should fit. If there is a gap, reduce Z in increments and vice versa if the gap is too small.

    I don't want to get into measurement accuracy of how you measured the gauge with calipers necessarily as that experimental error should be relatively small if you use a good set of calipers.

    I would be good to verify a manual cal and autocal give the same result for the same machine and to make sure people really know where their Z index is set properly after doing a cal.

    Example code below, commented out all extruder on/off M101/M103, commented out extruder settings M108 and temperature settings M104/M204 along with Fan on/off M106/M107. Run this "print" once once, measure with gauge, then cancel out of the print, then update Z setting and run again. And so on...

    JohnTee this should help you since you don't have a stock gap gauge, if you follow the math by G70 you should be able to calculate a starting point to set for Cal2 based on your gauge thickness and use this methodology to verify machine zero is where it should be.

    ok, ready set calibrate.....

    ^Minfirmware:V1.05
    ^DRM:000000000000
    ^ConfigAndConfiguration:X562-X560
    ^PrinterModel:CUBE3
    ^MaterialCodeE1:91
    ^MaterialCodeE2:-1
    ^MaterialCodeE3:-1
    ^MaterialLengthE1: 11453.519
    ^MaterialLengthE2: 0.000
    ^MaterialLengthE3: 0.000
    ^ModelHeight: 34.650
    ^LayerCount: 180
    ^LayerHeight:0.1925
    ^XSize:116.89
    ^YSize:116.89
    ^Supports:-1
    ^Raft:-1
    ^Sidewalks:-1
    ^Density:Strong
    ^Pattern:Cross
    ^Version:1549
    ^Time:241
    M227 P450 S450 G450 F600
    M228 P0 S450
    M231 P0 S0
    M232 P5000 S5000
    M233 P1000
    M106 P100
    G4 P60
    M601 P3 S60 F5
    M542
    M240 X450
    M240 Y400
    M228 P0 S1
    M227 P1 S1 G1000 F1000
    M601 P8 S60 F5
    M240 S450
    ^ M204 S155 P1
    ^ M104 S155 P1
    G1 X-100.500 Y0.000 Z5.0575 F7000.0
    ^ M104 S225
    ^ G4 P15
    M551 P850 S50
    G1 X-95.500 Y0.000 Z5.0575 F7000.0
    ^ M104 S210 P1
    M601 P2 S60 F5
    ^ M103
    M240 X400
    M240 Y450
    M543
    ^ M107
    ^ M107
    ^InitComplete
    #Vector T22
    ^ M104 S235 P1
    M228 P0 S450
    M227 P450 S450 G450 F600
    ^ M103
    G1 X-12.400 Y18.950 Z0.125 F8000.0 ; gap gauge thickness is 0.125mm for instance
    G4 P200 ;Pause 200sec
    ^ M108 S29.0
    ^ M101

    Now, we're back to talking BFB code and showing appropriate respect to MegaloDon's thread!
    Tim
    Last edited by tprothma; 04-12-2018 at 05:53 PM.

  10. #79
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    My apologies to you and your's Tim.

    @tim are you planning to iterate all the other z-values to maintain a constant layer thickness from layer 1 to 2... 2 to 3... etc?

    - - - - - - - - - -

    @tim My findings from yesterday shows two constants... PLA prints have a starting Z-value of 0.250; ABS has a starting Z-value of 0.220. Neither of these values come from the printer settings. These are defined as a Cube3 app default when no printer is present. and it remains the default when printers are attached. I am not suggesting I expect the Cube 3 app to poll the printer for it's gap or cal values... quite the opposite. I expect a certain level of machine independence from the BFB generator.

    @tim I agree that having control over the a gap delta would be nice to have control over. This delta is in essence what 3D Systems did between PLA and ABS by reducing the effective gap 30 microns.

    @tim Did you find your experiment to yield 125microns +the initial gap?

  11. #80
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    I think this is the last straw for me. Life is too short for all this drama.

    Oh, and by the way...

    My dog's breath smells like cat poop.

 

 

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